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Technical Help & Discussion => AV Lounge => Topic started by: Clive on January 12, 2003, 22:52

Title: Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on January 12, 2003, 22:52
I have been advised to go for a Kef speaker system and a Pioneer thingumejig although the Pioneer thingumejig won't do the latest Star Wars whatevers so my other cousin says it will be crap.  Can anyone enlighten me because my head hurts and my wallet is starting to become very light.   ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Rodders on January 12, 2003, 23:00
What you actually need is the Thingummyjig II, Clive.  It's only 1200 if you shop around.   ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: bat69 on January 12, 2003, 23:02
Its the new sound thing that Lucas Film has invented

You need a decoder for it to give you the real effects.
You could go for a slightly older one with THX decoding, this is good and will deliver most of the effects available today.

I'll try to find a nice article for you tomorrow CLive, so you can take it in with a clear head  ;)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on January 12, 2003, 23:09
Can I assume that my entire HiFi system will be made redundant?
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: bat69 on January 12, 2003, 23:10
No

All you need is an integrated decoder/amplifier and speakers ... the rest is ok  :D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on January 12, 2003, 23:40
Clive, I think you'll find a good Home Cinema Amp with DTS will suffice.  Have a look at Yamaha - they do some excellent amps.  In my opinion, for the 'normal' home, a THX amp is over extravagant, and will cost you well in excess of 1000, or more like 1200 as Rodders said, and there's only a handful of films which will fully benefit from it.
Check out this Yummyha (http://www.richersounds.com/index.php?f=itemdetl.php&p=206422) in Richer Sounds.  You could do a lot worse!  (https://www.pc-pals.com/images/rockon.gif)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on January 13, 2003, 13:25
Thanks for all that information although my head still hurts.  I will try and assimilate it.  ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: bat69 on January 13, 2003, 13:37
Ohh nooooo, Clive's a BORG  :o :o :o
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: bat69 on January 13, 2003, 13:41
You can try these sites Clive

http://products.consumerguide.com/cp/electronics/review/index.cfm/id/21356

This one (http://www.homecinemachoice.com/testbench/frame.html?http://www.homecinemachoice.com/testbench/DVDPlayers/Toshiba/ToshibaSD-510E.php)

http://www.hifiheaven.com/ht-electronics.htm

EDIT: and this is the bit about the Lucas sound stuff Clive:
http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/press/pr2402.html
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on January 13, 2003, 14:13
According to December's "Home Entertainment" magazine which cousin No.2 has sent me, the Yamaha comes out as best.  The Richer Sounds price is very good too.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: bat69 on January 13, 2003, 14:32
Looks like the collective has decided Clive of six  :P :P

(https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpages.prodigy.net%2Frogerlori1%2Femoticons%2FBORG2.GIF&hash=842b22f6f60e6126236668e4e55350a7a60a6052)     Resistance is futile  :o
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on January 13, 2003, 16:36
Well, I can vouch for the Yummyha, as I have one myself.  Not that precise model, but similar - I've got the DSP-A5, and have been mighty impressed with it.  
Yes, Richer Sounds do very good prices.  All I can say Clive, is, (https://www.pc-pals.com/images/gogogo.gif)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on January 13, 2003, 16:43
Let me see the whites of the telly's eyes first.   ;D  Two weeks have elapsed already since I ordered it.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on January 13, 2003, 18:41
I've just had a phone call from Currys to say that the telly is delayed by two weeks so I'm back to the starting post again.  Mid February now.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on January 13, 2003, 19:13
Awww, never mind Clive - it'll be worth the wait, and it will give you time to build your sound arsenal!!   >:D >:D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on January 16, 2003, 14:22
Just to prove that Curry's haven't a clue what they are doing, they just phoned again to say it's being delivered next Tuesday.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on January 16, 2003, 18:01
So, we won't see you next Tuesday then Clive!   ;) ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on January 21, 2003, 15:13
Well, true to their word the telly has arrived and two nice young men from Derby set it all up for me so that the DVD and VCR is all working through it too.  It seems fairly straightforward to use although I have to keep turning my head from side to side to take in the full screen. It remonds me a bit of when I could only afford the cheap front row seats in the cinema when the screen was right on top of you.  They were the sixpenny seats Sandra and I'm sure you remember them too.  ;D  I'm going to "bond" with the screen first before I start buying more speakers and surround sound.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Sandra on January 21, 2003, 15:23
I bet your old Super 8 films will look great on it when you manage to get them on vcd or dvd Clive  ;)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Mustapha Phagg on January 21, 2003, 15:25

 I'm going to "bond" with the screen first before I start buying more speakers and surround sound.


So Clive "The World Is Not Enough", hope you don't get a crick in your neck from sitting too close, ;D ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on January 21, 2003, 17:43
(https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apax34.dsl.pipex.com%2Fsmileys%2Fgoodnews.gif&hash=aea5f802cc83346646c6f92888a22a14de8057ea) Clive!!  I Hope you get many years of enjoyment from it!  :gofor:
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on January 21, 2003, 17:52
The set top box that came with it has Dolby Pro Logic and has sockets for surround speakers and subwoofer.  Does this mean that I only need  to buy a set of additional speakers to have home cinema?  You can tell by now that I really don't have a clue what I've bought.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Sandra on January 21, 2003, 17:57
This is Simons department but he'll be along soon to advise you ( Sorry for pinching your phrase Simon  ;D ;D ;D )

No doubt he'll be telling you off for not getting 5.1 or even 6.1 Clive  ::)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on January 21, 2003, 18:14
If you can give me the make and model number of the STB, Clive (Set Top Box!), I'll find out some more for you.  Is it a Sky box?

From what you've said, it sounds like the STB will only deliver DPL (Dolby Pro Logic), when what you really want is Dolby Digital 5.1, and preferably DTS too, which it sounds like you will need an additional amp for.

The difference is this:  DPL outputs from the centre speaker (the one that would be above the TV), and in stereo from the front speakers, but only outputs from the rear speakers in MONO.  With DD5.1 and DTS you get stereo from the rear speakers as well, which makes a hell of a big difference to the overall Home Cinema Experience.

The reason you have only been given a DPL box, is that Terrestrial TV, and (with a minority of possible exceptions) most Satellite channels only broadcast in DPL.  You would only get the benefit of DD5.1 or DTS when playing DVDs, but I can't express how much it's worthwhile having!

You might find THIS GUIDE (http://www.dolby.com/ht/Guide.HomeTheater.0110.html) interesting, and informative.   :)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on January 21, 2003, 18:32
That's the guide I've been looking for Simon!  I don't have time to read it now as I'm off out soon, but I'll read it when I come back.  

All it says on the box is that it's Samsung surround sound Dolby pro-logic.  There are no numbers or other means of identification.  The handbook says that it is a "media station".
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on January 21, 2003, 18:40
Sounds like it's just designed for your TV speakers, Clive.  Nothing wrong with that, but if you want to go the whole hog, which you might as well now, you have to look at getting a proper Home Cinema Amp.  I'd still recommend the Yummyha in Richer Sounds, and RS do some good deals on speakers as well.  You could do a lot worse then going for Mission speakers.  Did you say you already had a decent pair of fronts?  All you would then need is a set of rears and a centre.  Oh, and a Sub Woofer to shake the sofa!!  :heehee:  :gofor:
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Sandra on January 21, 2003, 19:46
 Oh, and a Sub Woofer to shake the sofa!!  :heehee:  :gofor:


Have you already got your dog then Clive?If not I would get a proper woofer not a sub standard one  ;)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on January 21, 2003, 21:13
Quote
Quote
Have you already got your dog then Clive?If not I would get a proper woofer not a sub standard one  ;)


That's a very good point Sandra.   :damn:
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on January 21, 2003, 23:45
Now you're confusing him, Sandra!!   ;D ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Sandra on January 22, 2003, 00:10

Now you're confusing him, Sandra!!   ;D ;D


It doesnt take much Simon,after all he is only a man  ;)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on January 22, 2003, 00:12
:youch:
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on February 26, 2003, 15:57
After much deliberation and cogitation I am considering a Yahama RXV630 receiver (for certain) and Mission FS1AV speakers.  The speaker system looks ideal as they are unobtrusive and can be wall mounted.  I know they use NXT technology but are they up to the job?
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Hitch on February 26, 2003, 16:50
After readin all this im just glad i stuck with my goodl old dolby 6.1.

Get an old granny round and play someat like armeggadon..hehe watch them freak at the intro... life assurance optional  ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on February 26, 2003, 17:08
:lol: Hitch.

I don't think you can go far wrong with Mission speakers, Clive, but I'll check them out after tea for you.   ;) :)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on February 26, 2003, 17:23
You have to bear in mind that these Mission speakers use a completely new technology and are probably manufactured by NXT.  NXT actually owned Mission until about a year ago but sold them off in order to raise cash for more research.  They still however have very close links.  I realise that there has to be a compromise between sound quality and aesthetics.  As far as the aesthetics are concerned there is nothing to touch them.  But what about those lower frequencies?
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on February 26, 2003, 18:25
[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on February 26, 2003, 19:27
The Missions you are buying are a good price aren't they?  Yes, the FS1AV's are very stylish indeed and they look just as good in the flesh.  I would really like to see some impartial reviews though.  Do the specifications look ok to you Simon?
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on February 26, 2003, 20:33
Here are some reviews Clive.  I have to point out that these were taken off the Mission website, so they will bound to have selected the best bits, but you'll get the gist I think.   ;)

T3 (UK) January 2003 Issue
4 Star Review.

'Manufacturers routinely promise the impossible from tiny subsat packages in the knowledge that - although multichannel audio and home cinema is an attractive prospect for many - space is always at a premium. Compact subsat systems are better than they were, but on the whole they're not good enough - yet.'

'What, then, does Mission's latest system bring to the mix? The fs1 system consists of five satellites and a subwoofer with some unique features. The satellites are no smaller than many, but because they're so thin they're also less intrusive.'

'The laws of physics preclude extracting meaningful bass from very tiny boxes, and the fs1 subwoofer is no smaller than many others. But instead of the usual rectangular box, which needs to be placed mid-wall to work properly, the fs1 subwoofer is designed to fit the dead space in the corner of the room, its rounded shape making a refreshing change.'
 
 
 
Home Cinema Choice (UK) January 2003 issue.
4.5 Star Review.

'The sleek appearance of the Mission fs1 package is immediately striking. The satin silver finish gives the speakers a genuine classy look and although this is no way a hugely expensive system, the sturdy build quality of the component speakers suggest otherwise.'

'Setup is a very easy affair, making the Mission fs1 a real plug-in-and-play speaker system. The cable and terminals on the subwoofer are unique to this system, and once all the speakers are connected to the sub, then only two cables - one for the LFE - go to your amplifier.'

'Overall the system comes highly recommended. It still manages to amaze when you consider the diminutive size of the speakers, and it is incredibly stylish to boot. If you are in the market for a low-cost speaker system that won't end up taking over your living room, looks impressive and can still turn out a very credible cinematic experience, then this Mission fs1 package is a must-audition choice.'
 
 
 
Total DVD (UK) December 2002 issue.
4.5 star Review.

'Proving that cutting costs doesn't necessarily mean skimping on aesthetics, this 5.1 speaker system is trimmed in silver satin and boasts a nifty space-age design.'

' Thanks to Mission's NXT technology, they're also small enough to tuck away if, for some reason, you get bored of looking at them.'

'Using the wonderful Region 2 version of Saving Private Ryan as a test disc, the first thing we noticed was the surprisingly large, accurate and involving soundstage that these dinky speakers were able to create.'

www.totaldvd.net
 
 
 
What HI*FI (UK) December 2002 issue.
4 star Review.

The fs1 gets a creditable 4 star review stating "Slimline design with lot's of clever touches: sounds good, too.?

"For its market, we reckon this stylish package is just right, from its completeness to its flexibility of setup, and is likely to prove very successful".

www.whathifi.com
 
 
 
What Video & TV (UK) November 2002 issue.
Reviewer Alvin Gold awarded 4 stars.

?The fs1 is a home cinema solution for those who don?t like loudspeakers. Mission?s ultra-slim fs1 speaker system will bring a touch of panache to any living room. The fs1?s radical looks and open, spacious sound will win it many friends.?

www.whatvideotv.com  
 
 
HOME ENTERTAINMENT (UK) October 2002 issue.
Reviewer Alan Sircom awarded 5 stars

?A satin sliver finish and curvy design make the fs1 a class act. This wafer thin NXT surround sound speaker package is fantastic value for money and finds the ?Mission sound? is better than ever.?

www.home-entertainment.co.uk


For what it's worth, I would say that although the package isn't the worlds most powerful, you shouldn't have any problems hearing it in an average sized living room.  However, in my opinion (and don't let me put you off), I prefer a nice heavy speaker made out of wood!  There's just something about a good solid wooden speaker case that makes the sound the way I like it, but not having heard the FS1 package, I really can't judge.

Can I ask how much you have seen them offered for?
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on February 26, 2003, 20:47
I think the speaker package was around 439 and the Yahama about 449.  Anyway the whole system is under 900 and they will throw in a fibre optic cable for free.  This is at a local store called Quinns (Adept may have heard of them)in Swansea.  I did see those reviews Simon, but as you said, they are not what I would call impartial as they may have left all the bad bits out.  Oh well, if you hear any more before I buy (probably next week) let me know.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Hitch on February 26, 2003, 21:16

You have to bear in mind that these Mission speakers use a completely new technology and are probably manufactured by NXT.  NXT actually owned Mission until about a year ago but sold them off in order to raise cash for more research.  They still however have very close links.  I realise that there has to be a compromise between sound quality and aesthetics.  As far as the aesthetics are concerned there is nothing to touch them.  But what about those lower frequencies?


Clive, I have a 3 point system for one of my desktops by TDK using nxt flat panel and while not top rated they kickass, the tubular woofer is a godsend and really pummels the bass in a funnel.
The actual flats have fantastic sound for music and dvd alike running through a live plat... im considering dumping my sony speakers on the hifi and gettinhg the next set up for that.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on February 26, 2003, 22:06
Thank you very much for that review Hitch.  You have convinced me and I will go ahead and buy them.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on February 27, 2003, 09:21
One question which I have forgotten to ask.  What happens when you are watching normal television?  Obviously that does not have surround sound capabilities but do you get any sound from the extra speakers?
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on February 27, 2003, 14:20
Normal NICAM TV is broadcast in Dolby Pro Logic, so you would get sound out of the rear speakers, but only in mono, Clive.  The same applies to the Freeview Digital channels I think.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on February 27, 2003, 14:40
And the subwoofer too?
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on February 27, 2003, 15:00
It should do, Clive, but you won't notice much 'woofing' with TV sound.

Just a small tip, it's best to try to avoid the temptation to turn up the sub-woofer if you can't always hear it.  They are supposed to reinforce the bass, not overpower it.  If you have it set right, you'll hear it when you need to, and it will have more of an impact.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on February 27, 2003, 15:47
Thanks for the tip Simon.  I've been looking at the layout of the room and I've worked out where everything will go and how to get it there.  I feel an excitement factor building up already.  The only reason I haven't already bought it is that I'm waiting for someone to collect my treasured Hi Fi and that should take place next week.  Once it's gone I can get myself sorted out.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on February 27, 2003, 17:38
Well, it doesn't really matter where the sub-woofer goes, although yours is corner shaped, so, (master of the art of the bleeding obvious), a corner would be ideal!  What I mean is, you don't actually hear the sound from where the sub-woofer is placed.  Have you still got the guide I linked you to some time ago?  If not, I'll find one for you.

Edit:  Here is it, Clive. (http://www.dolby.com/ht/Guide.HomeTheater.0110.html)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on February 27, 2003, 18:31
Thanks Simon, I'm sure I will have more questions when I get it.  ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 12, 2003, 10:51
After much prevarication and soul searching (no I didn't find it!) ;D I have now ordered the Mission FS1AV at 329.95, stands at 64.95 and the Yahama RXV630 at 399.95 from HiFi Suppliers
 http://www.hifisuppliers.co.uk/website/av-speaker-packs/mission-fs1av.htm

They say that it will take about a week so watch this space.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on March 12, 2003, 13:35
Well done Clive!  Plunge well and truly taken!    :) :)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 17, 2003, 13:17
They phoned me late Friday afternoon to say that I would receive everything on Monday.  Well, today is Monday, and guess what?  It's turned up!  My old equipment departed this morning and I bade a sad farewell to my enormous speakers and Quad amplifier.  At least I know it's gone to a good home and will be well cared for.

Now I have to get to grips with the Yamaha and Missions and work out how it all fits together.  I may not have it working for a day or two but my son left me Star Wars and Gladiator to watch.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Camstop on March 17, 2003, 14:06
Well done clive..!!!

I know first hand that mission speakers are top drawer, and it all looks very impressive....

But watch out though.....these systems can be very powerful !!!      (https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpages.prodigy.net%2Frogerlori1%2Femoticons%2Ffreak1.gif&hash=9ba5816b1b9e2a5c5040b4da78670b15b64de98f)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on March 17, 2003, 16:27
(https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apax34.dsl.pipex.com%2Fsmileys%2Fwoo.gif&hash=19af55fe8b9ef97ccbf75ce85edf9a4e1d24d87f)  :gofor:  Clive!!   ;D ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 17, 2003, 19:02
I've taken everything out of the boxes!!  What a start!  ;D  I've even connected all the speakers up to the subwoofer and connected the other ends to the Yamaha.  I now have to get leads and plugs to connect the Yamaha to the TV Set top box (speaker connections).  

I have questions:

1.)  I wish to remove the speakers from the TV set (they are just bolt on).  Will the Yamaha have to be always switched on to get TV sound?

2.) I can connect the DVD player to the Yamaha by a) optical digital or b) s-video jack.  Which should I use?  There are no scart sockets on the Yamaha.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on March 17, 2003, 20:59
Hi Clive!  

1. Yup.  The Yamaha will have to be on to receive TV sound if you remove the TV speakers.  If you remember, I mentioned this before.  After the novelty has worn off, you might not want to have the Yam on just to watch every day TV.  My advice would be to leave them on if that's at all practicable.  The scart connection to the TV box will provide the TV sound.  

2. The S-Video jack is for visual signals.  You  don't need to connect that to the Yam at all.  Connect the Optical Digital, which is for the sound.

Hope that helps.   :)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 17, 2003, 21:03
Thanks Simon.  I will have to wait a few days before I go somewhere to pick up the cables I need.  I was in Maplins today but unfortunately that was before the new kit arrived.  I think I will take your advice and leave the TV speakers where they are.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on March 17, 2003, 21:07
Clive, have you thought about ordering your cables on line from Maplins?  I ordered some speaker cable, and it arrived the following day.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on March 22, 2003, 20:57
Hey Clive, got any further with this yet?  All seems ominously quiet!   ;) ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 22, 2003, 22:31
Damn!  I didn't think about ordering online from Maplins.  The nearest Maplins is 25 miles away and I didn't want to make a special journey.  I'll be passing them twice next week so I'll be able to pick up the leads then.   ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on March 22, 2003, 23:00
Ooh, Clive, I don't know how you've managed to contain yourself so long!  I'd have been down there like a shot!  Or ordered online!   ;) ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 22, 2003, 23:12
Yes, I'm dying to hear what those speakers sound like too!  But I couldn't resist taking advantage of all the good weather we have had this week to do all that outside painting while work is very quiet.  And the thought of making a 50 mile round trip and not claiming mileage hurts pretty bad.   ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 25, 2003, 14:22
In this painfully slow saga of getting my home cinema set up I can report progress.  ;D  I have now bought all the cables I need.  It only requires connecting it all up now to see if it works.  I'm not sure if I will do that today but will certainly do so within the next day or so.  This is the last day of the good weather so I'm going to finish my outside painting.  ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 25, 2003, 17:32
A further progress report.  It seems that I have at least bought all the correct cables so that's a good start.  I've also managed to get my head around the optical cable which connects the DVD to the Yamaha receiver.  I've connected all the phono plugs from the "surround out" on the TV set top box (media station) to the Yamaha as well.  Unfortunately, when I did that and tried using the TV, there was no sound coming out of the TV speakers.  Slight panic attack (understatement) as Mrs Clive is on her way home and I feared for my life if she returned to a broken TV for which I was fully responsible.  So I pulled all the phono leads out of the set top box and the sound returned.  I live to fight another day.   ;D  Oh well, at least I've routed cables even if I have failed in my final objective and I will persevere over the next few days.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on March 25, 2003, 17:50
Clive, how are your TV speakers currently connected to the TV Box?  Connecting the 'Surround Out' to the Yamaha shouldn't affect the TV speakers, nor should the Optical Digital connection to the DVD player.  Maybe you accidentally dislodged one of the SCART connections while fiddling about - it's easily done.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 25, 2003, 18:06
The TV speakers are connected by means of bare wires pushed into spring-loaded connectors - a system which I find archaic.

Bear in mind that I haven't connected the DVD into the system yet as I wanted to check things stage by stage.  It may be that I haven't correctly identified the main speaker outputs yet so it could be trial and error.  The other 4 speaker input/outputs are clearly labelled.  

Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on March 25, 2003, 18:33
That's what I has assumed, Clive.  I can't see how the External Speaker Out connection to the TV speakers could have been affected by making additional connections, unless something in the circuitry doesn't allow both.

What I would suggest trying is (assuming you have connections on the TV) connecting your TV speakers direct to the TV, rather than the box.  Then the TV sound would be provided by the SCART lead from the box to the TV.  Geddit?
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 25, 2003, 20:08
I think it may be worth connecting everything up to see what happens first.  I didn't really have a lot of time this afternoon and I wanted to get everything "back to normal" before Mrs Clive came home.  I don't think that the TV speakers can be connected straight into the set itself.  I'm quite pleased that I routed cables anyway as that took up some time so all was not lost.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on March 25, 2003, 20:35
OK, keep us posted Clive!   ;) ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on March 27, 2003, 23:29
Not to be outdone, I've just ordered a new DVD player.  It's a Pioneer DV-656A-K, which can be seen, by anyone with a passing interest, here. (http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/product_detail.jsp?product_id=2048&taxonomy_id=62-84)

I got it because I fancied an upgrade, and also wanted to get an SACD player, in order to take full advantage of the new 30th Anniversary Edition of Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon, which is on SACD, with Dolby Digital 5.1 sound, and which I anticipate will be an aural experience not to be missed!   ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Sandra on March 27, 2003, 23:51
I thought Dolby 5.1 was old hat Simon.Isnt Dolby 6.1 the thing now  ???
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: bat69 on March 27, 2003, 23:59
It is on the Creative Audigy Platinum sound card  ;) ;) :P
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on March 28, 2003, 07:53
There's always a  (https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apax34.dsl.pipex.com%2Fsmileys%2Fsmartarse.gif&hash=d43edc856bb680a8508f8f04bcab7221e2dab26f)  isn't there!   ;D ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 28, 2003, 21:33
I've moved the DVD player and connected it up to the receiver and set top box and it still works!  Tomorrow is the big day when I'm actually going to put the mains plugs in and switch everything on.  I'm getting quite excited now.  ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on March 28, 2003, 21:48
Well, tomorrow is also the day I get my new DVD player.  Trouble is, I haven't got any SACDs to try out on it yet!   :(   Dark Side Of The Moon should be here very soon though...   :D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 28, 2003, 21:57
I hope everything goes ok for you Simon.   ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 29, 2003, 13:47
Yes!!  It works and I'm very impressed with the way it sounds.  The speakers all have to be positioned in their final places as they are not yet fixed, but that is a small job.  The only problem is that the amplifier has to be switched on or the phono plugs removed to get the TV speakers to work.  That's a bit strange but my son will have a look at that when he comes home next weekend.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on March 29, 2003, 15:14
Well done Clive!  I thought you'd be pleased with it!  That TV speakers thing is strange.  The only thing I can think of is it must be something to do with the way the TV Box is wired up to the amp, and for some reason, it's cutting out the TV speaker channels.  Master of the art of the bleeding obvious, I know!

Perhaps there's something in the set up menus of the TV box that will solve it?
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 29, 2003, 16:11
I've just watched the first half of Star Wars "Attack of the Clones" and the sound  surpassed my wildest expectations, especially considering that the speakers are currently in the wrong place.  The only connections between the TV box and the amplifier are the 6 speaker phonos so I can't see how I can have done anything wrong with that.  I've taken a look at the TV sound menu too and I can't see anything obvious.  In fact it seems pretty foolproof and it appears to automatically detect what I want.

We'll see what happens when my son comes home.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on March 29, 2003, 18:37
Glad you're impressed Clive - it's a real ear opener isn't it!  ;D ;D

Actually, you couldn't have chosen a much better DVD with which to benchmark your set up.  AOTC is one of the most bass heavy discs you'll find, so if you set up your subwoofer volume to suit that one, (loud enough to reinforce the bass, but not to overpower everything else) you won't find you'll have to keep jumping up to turn it down when you play other films.  Of course, you might want to turn it up!  ;)  ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 29, 2003, 19:57
It was amusing to watch the cat who was quite curious about the sound coming out of the subwoofer and kept sniffing it when the film was playing.  I lost count of the number of times she jumped out of her skin with her ears pinned back!   ;D  Yes, the effects are particularly good on AOTC.  Mrs Clive is presently watching a BBC DVD but that is just in Dolby so only the TV speakers are in action.  I'm probably not getting the best out of the Yamaha yet as I need to fiddle with it while watching different media.  Fiddling is always best done when Mrs Clive is out.   ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Sandra on March 29, 2003, 20:24
I believe that you prefer playing with yourself when Mrs Clive is out Clive  ;)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on March 29, 2003, 20:57
Trust a woman to bring down the tone!  This is a BOYS TOYS zone, Sandra - On Yer Bike!! ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on March 30, 2003, 07:44
Well said Simon!   ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on April 06, 2003, 17:16
I am on the home straights with my home cinema setup.  My son has been home this weekend and he confirmed that I had wired it all up correctly.  The problem was that I should have set the receiver to "home theatre" instead of "DVD".  Now everything works perfectly!  

All I have left to do is to place the speakers correctly.  I've mounted the rear ones 6ft from the floor as recommended in the Yamaha manual although I think they may have been better when they were lower down.  I've moved the subwoofer into a more prominent position but I think it performed just as good when it was hidden from view under a desk.  I am considering moving it back again but before I do, I have to get longer cables for the rear speakers.  Unfortunately they have 2 pin female connectors (offset) and I'm not sure where I can obtain them.  The front main speakers are on tall stands and I think I will wall mount them as they look a bit obtrusive at present.  Anyway, the sound is awesome!  Thanks (particularly to Simon) for all the help I've had on this.  It was far better than that I received from the Home Theatre forum (from an admin at that) and I hope I will never have to visit them again!
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: bat69 on April 06, 2003, 19:05
Way hey Simon ... way to go  ;D ;D ;D :welldone:
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on April 06, 2003, 21:29
(https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apax34.dsl.pipex.com%2Fsmileys%2Fwoo.gif&hash=19af55fe8b9ef97ccbf75ce85edf9a4e1d24d87f)   (https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apax34.dsl.pipex.com%2Fsmileys%2Fwelldone.gif&hash=8b1a93c8fb6150b0ef38f4d71e2c8663fc767ee2)  Clive!!

The rear speakers *ideally* should be placed around 12 inches above head height from sitting position, so 6ft could actually be a little high.  I say *ideally* because very few people actually have the *ideal* positions available, due to the geometry of the average living room.  The best way I found was to throw the book away, and have them where they sound best to you.  As I've said before, the downside of a Home Cinema is the fact that there is only one 'perfect' seating position, so you just have to make the best of what is practicable (and agreeable with the wife!)

The sub-woofer can be placed virtually anywhere, because the low frequency sound is not directional, but again *ideally*, it should be placed somewhere in between the two front speakers.  It's fine under a desk, as long as there is room for it to 'breathe', and the bass port is not blocked.  Again, have it where it sounds best to you.

Just a thought, I don't doubt that they would be, but make sure any speakers, including the sub-woofer, are magnetically shielded, before placing them near the TV.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on April 06, 2003, 22:19
The rear speakers are a little more than 12" above head level but not by a huge margin.  I decided to mount them so that the top of the speakers are at 6ft rather than the bottom.   ;D  So perhaps they are in the ideal position after all.  

I don't know if the cables have "standard" connections or whether they are unique to Mission.  I would be very surprised if they are unique although I haven't seen that type of connector before.  I'll take one into Maplins next time I visit and see what they have to say.  I'm sure I can't be the first person to require a longer speaker cable!
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on April 07, 2003, 10:17
I telephoned Mission this morning and they will supply me with longer cables for 13.00.  ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on April 07, 2003, 14:44
That's not too bad Clive.  

I've just ordered 100 meters of speaker cable from Maplins for 20, but that's without special connectors.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Sandra on May 01, 2003, 16:41
This is just to let you know how much I hate you two,Simon and Clive  >:(

I am sat at my computer glancing occassionally at a large box containing 5 speakers,an amplifier,a control box(with yet another remote control to add to my existing 8 ),lots of leads and wires  :o

I havent a clue how and when I am going to get around to figuring out where each bit is going and where the wires go  ???

AND IT IS BOTH YOUR FAULTS FOR GOING ON AND ON ABOUT HOW GREAT IT WAS    :'(
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on May 01, 2003, 16:45
Oh come on Sandra, if I can work it out then anybody can.   ;D  You will be delighted with it when it's all set up and running.  Just let us know if you experience any difficulties with it and I'm sure we can help.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Sandra on May 01, 2003, 16:47
Its not so much the wiring thats the problem its where do I put all the extra speakers and bits and pieces  ???
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on May 01, 2003, 17:44
It's always a problem Sandra.  My set-up is far from perfect but the good news is that after much experimenation with speaker positions, I found that it's very forgiving and as long as you have them spaced out the effect will still be excellent.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Sandra on May 01, 2003, 17:57
Well I have just spent the last 30 minutes getting all the bits and pieces out of the box and placing them where they need to be,or where I think.
I already have a tv with Dolby Pro logic so I will just replace the rear ones with these ones.
The main amplifier/boom box thing is sat on the floor next to the tv.
I could do with seeing if I can leve my current central speaker in place as that would be easy as it is part of the tv stand.
That just leaves the remote controlling gizmo and the front speakers which I would have liked to have been the same as the rear ones so I could hang them on the wall.Unfortunately these are meant to stand on something  :(
Anyway thats enough  for today,I will leave it until tomorrow as I have already upgraded the ram on no 1 PC and fitted new speakers to that along with a subwoofer,sounds better than my stereo now  :o
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on May 01, 2003, 18:10
Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow.   ;D  You have had a very productive day Sandra.  I wondered why you were up so early!
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on May 01, 2003, 18:24
Told you before Sandra - Home Cinema is for boys only.  You haven't a chance!   ;D ;D

Seriously though, you'll enjoy it once it's all set up.  As long as you position the speakers as equal in distance from centre as your room will allow, with the rears behind and the fronts in front, you should be OK.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Lona on May 01, 2003, 18:27
I honestly don't know when Clive and Sandra find the time to watch home cinema with the amount of time they spend on here ;D :P ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Sandra on May 01, 2003, 18:35
Well its just in case the ADSL line goes down sometime Lona  ;)
Actually at the place I got the home cinema kit and my new pc speakers they had a 42 inch plasma screen TV too for 1700  :(
I cant afford that until I win the lottery or similar  ;)
It must have been set up as the biggest PC monitor in the world as it was connected to a PC and the arrow for the cursor was about the same size as Robin Hood would have used  8)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Lona on May 01, 2003, 18:48
We could go halfers, Sandra but then you would have to move to Scotland ;D ;)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on May 01, 2003, 18:55
That is a truly amazing price for a 42" plasma Sandra.  When I bought mine it seemed an extravagent purchase but I honestly don't regret it.  It has made a huge  ;D difference to watching the telly.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Adept on May 01, 2003, 19:05

It has made a huge  ;D difference to watching the telly.


Trouble is, it's so big, Clive has to watch it from the living room of the house opposite ;D ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Sandra on May 01, 2003, 21:56



Trouble is, it's so big, Clive has to watch it from the living room of the house opposite ;D ;D



He bought that house so he could charge people for watching the tv,the rents free but it costs them 10 per hour to watch tv  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Sandra on May 02, 2003, 17:25
Thanks to the encouragement from Clive and a little help from Simon,althouh as I said before it was their fault anyway that I bought the thing  ::) , I now have my home cinema set up and working  :)
I still have to find a permanent place for the front speakers as one is sat on the window sill near the TV and the other is on my piano at the opposite side of the room.
The rear ones were just a simple case of swapping the ones already on the wall for the pro logic part of my tv.
Unfortunately I think the ones I have taken down were probably better quality as they are a lot heavier and slightly bigger than the new ones  ???
The new ones are 4 ohms impedance compared to the 8 ohms  of the old ones so I thought it best to use the new ones,also all the speakers match  ;)
For some reason the DVD player (digital input to the amplifier via a co axial connection) volume is a lot lower than the Video (analogue input to the amplifier via the two phono plugs) volume.
So much so that I have the amplifier set to maximum and the decoder volume at around 3/4 max volume to hear it at the same level as when I am watching the tv through the video,when I have the amplifier set at about half the max volume and I  then have a large range of volume control via the decoder.
I have to watch the tv through the videp in order to connect it to the decoder as I dont have audio out on the tv I only have it on my video.
The DVD player and the VIDEO are both on the same AV channel on my tv connected by scart sockets through a switchable two into one scart connector.
The volume through that is roughly similar on both suggesting some problem or mismatch with the co axial connection from the DVD to the amplifier.
Theres is an optical output from the DVD and an optical input to the amplifier does anyone think that that may somehow improve the volume of the dvd player  ???

Edited to add :
I have just tried connecting the DVD via the phono out and the volume level is still the same as with the co axial one so I cant see the optical connection making any difference  :(
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on May 02, 2003, 18:02
That's strange Sandra.  Usually when that sort of thing happens, it's a case of 'two into one won't go', i.e., two components are somehow connected to the same input.  I would double check the connections, just to be certain, but from what we've already discussed, that doesn't seem to be the case.

The next thing I would look for is a setting in the menu options of the DVD player (sound settings?), to enable the digital out.  On some players, my old Sony for example, the default was 'off', and the analogue signal was siginificantly quieter than the digital one.

There's no way you should have to have the amp at full volume to be able to hear anything, so I would suggest that something is amiss, either in the connections or the settings in the DVD player, or the control box.
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Sandra on May 02, 2003, 20:02
Tried everything I can think of Simon,changed what I could without making any difference to th elevel but I have just put a music cd in and thats playing at about the correct volume maybe I have some quiet dvds,but I played them before without thinking I had to max the tv volume  ::)

Edited to add:
 I have just tried a VCD that I did on the PC of Spiderman and that is ok for the volume too.
I will have to get some more dvds or get downloading from winmx again  ;)
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Clive on May 02, 2003, 20:43
Phew!  That's a relief.  As Simon said, having to use max vol is a bit suspicious.  I know that optical cable is supposed to be the best type of connection and I've tried searching for more information but to no avail.

There is an enormous Home Theatre forum at:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/index.php
but when I asked a question they weren't all that friendly and I only got one reply.  A bit disappointing when they have over 4,000 members!
Title: Re:Home Cinema
Post by: Simon on May 02, 2003, 22:27
Well, as we discussed earlier, the Dolby Digital sound has a greater dynamic range than Pro Logic, so when you were watching DVDs on your TV, you would have only had the 'flatter' Pro Logic sound.  With Dolby Digital, you will notice that the quiet bits seem quieter, and the loud bits MUCH LOUDER!!!  With that in mind, I wouldn't advise having the amp at full volume, as you may even damage it or your speakers, if the sound volume suddenly increases during a movie.

That's the only explanation I can come up with for the lack of volume, but of course, there may be an underlying technical problem.