PC Pals Forum
Technical Help & Discussion => Website Design & Programming => Topic started by: daveeb on November 20, 2002, 17:46
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:) i need some advice regarding using my webspace for the(very)uninitiated. what software would i need if any. i've got 55Mb to play with and it seems a waste not to use some of it, but i really dont have a clue so any advice would be great. ;)
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Well Daveeb, I've used Dreamweaver but I can recommend firstpage 2000 from Evrsoft (http://www.evrsoft.com/) Its quite friendly
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To start with you need a program to make your page with,I use Namo Web Editor.There are some versions which come with templates so you dont have to think too much.
Once you have made your page you then need an FTP program to be able to upload your page to your webspace,I use Bluezone Ftp.
There are many different wed design and FTP programs available from various places and people have their own preferences as some have templates to choose from and some dont.
Hope this helps a little,get back to me if you need any more info :-*
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This is something I have been wanting to do, but can't think of anything interesting to put on a website! However, any information here would be most useful, so keep it coming folks! :)
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The most widely-used application for designing your own site has to be MS Frontpage. You should find the nasty, free version, Frontpage Express, either already lurking on your machine, or available for download from MS.
If you're planning any thing really ambitious, dig deep and get yourself a copy of Dreamweaver -- that's the one the grown-ups use. Or if you're as cheap as I am, you could always learn HTML and write your code using Notepad.
Here's a website that's absolutely brilliant if you're learning to code by hand. Wall-to-wall tutorials and tons of other handy stuff!
HTML Goodies (http://www.htmlgoodies.com)
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thanks people for the wealth of answers. soon you'll all have daveeb.com as your homepage i'm sure.
;)
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Do you have any particular web creation software loaded on your computer? like Frontpage? or netscape? O0
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Hi Tigergal41!
Welcome to the forum! We hope you enjoy your time here, and find it useful.
I'm no web creator myself, so I'm just saying Hi, but someone will be along to answer your question very soon, I'm sure. I do know of a program called Dreamweaver, but it's damned expensive!! :)
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Hi tigergal41,
I see Simon's already rolled out the welcome wagon, but welcome anyway to our little forum. I hope you'll be happy here :)
Dreamweaver is my personal favourite too. I currently have Dreamweaver MX on my PCs. I often find a use for Frontpage 2002 and sometimes, when the mood takes me, Notepad ::)
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As usual I think the guys have misread your post Tigergal ;)
I think she is offering help to Dave not seeking it for herself :-*
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Dohhh!! Well, you females have a language all of your own!! ;D ;D
The sentiment is still the same - Hi Tiger!! ;D ;D
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Of course we do Simon,why else would it be called the Queens' English ::)
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Sheeesh ::) Women! If I live to be 1,000, I still won't understand them :D ;)
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If you understood us Adept it wouldnt be as much fun would it ;)
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You win the teddy bear! I was offering help......lol
Been a web designer for several years.... but still remember the learning curve.. and the first web I ever created........ I keep it close to keep me humble......smiles ::)
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You win the teddy bear! I was offering help......lol
Been a web designer for several years.... but still remember the learning curve.. and the first web I ever created........ I keep it close to keep me humble......smiles ::)
I understood you tigergal41 [so there Sandra :-*] anyway come on show us what keeps you so humble, I'm still on my first one he.he.
I think rodders is right anybody wanting to make a web site should first play with the building blocks HTML. Simon, I can best describe it as a bit like doing a jigsaw sort of, some times frustrating but always rewarding when you have cracked it. I reckon if I had been interested in computers in the early days, I would not be as clueless now as understanding the software side.
My current web site, and might I add first and proberbuly only one ::) was built by hand so to speak Here (http://www.suggy.plus.com/)The links, graphics, mailto etc where all done really just to check out the different lessons in the tutorial. Here is the site I used to build my web page Here (http://www.pagetutor.com/)
And it really is an 'Idiots Guide to Html web page building' I mean I'm living proof of that. I made myself a folder, named it Web Builder and made it avaliable of line so I could lake with it [this is when extra monitors comes in really handy ;)]
Mind you all that said if I get the bug I may treat myself to copy of Dreamweaver from our freinds ::)
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Just shows I never bother with it once it was built up untill now, I was with AlphaPhe [ they went t*ts up a week after I joined] but a great service really, ha well. I'll have to change the email link, but there again, all you loons ;) will now where to contact me ;D
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There that's the email address sorted, it's as easy as that [must add a link to pc-pals.com, but I'm of shopping] go one Simon give it a go this weekend.
catch.
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Well, I would do Catch, but I've really not got much of an inclination to make a webpage at the moment. This information could certainly be useful in the future though, so thanks! If I can think of something interesting to put on it, I'll have a go! :)
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Well, I would do Catch, but I've really not got much of an inclination to make a webpage at the moment. This information could certainly be useful in the future though, so thanks! If I can think of something interesting to put on it, I'll have a go! :)
I've removed the link to view Simons PC from my web site, if you want to see it look here (http://www.pc-pals.com/index.php?board=29;action=display;threadid=761;start=15)
Pointless cluttering up my site with Simons junk ;D only kidding mate
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Oh, we are getting flash, Catch! I've actually got Dreamweaver, (na na na na na!), so I could possibly do something with that, but quite frankly, I just can't be arsed at the moment! :D
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Re: (I think rodders is right anybody wanting to make a web site should first play with the building blocks HTML).....
Sorry I have to disagree with that one... that is only a very small part..... And not at all how i learned.... Being able to code does not make you a web designer... Any one can make a page. There are several sites out there that will allow you to get a site up and running if you only want to create a basic home page or ecommerce site....why learn to code if that is your only need for web design.... However, if you have a serious interest in design and you keep coming back to it????? again and again ??..no matter how frustrating ???then I have this advice.....
1. Learning to be a good web designer is not done in a linear progression... it is a messy business...the first thing you must accept....... is that you will never master web design......as soon as you learn something.... a new technology...new technique. etc....... there will be something new and improved you need to know. It is the nature of the beast..... So if you don?t plan on being a life long learner..... Give it up now!..
2. There are several learning areas to attack ....graphics, code, software, design elements, usability, and client services.
3. Web design can be fun... and it can be like pulling teeth..... and it depends on what type of person you are... some people absolutely live to code.... others are more geared to design and graphics...Since you have to learn all the areas to become a good designer...pick whatever area you feel most drawn too.... start any where you like.....tackle one or two at a time or all at once.....It will all come together somewhere down the road....when ever your mind makes the connections....unfortunately some web people think that knowing front-page makes you a web designer....and never touch the basics of graphic design.....and others play in graphics but never realize that a 2 minute load time is not acceptable??.lol?.that would have been me a few years back??there needs to be a balance.
4. You need to look at great web sites and not feel defeated?? let them energize you and know that you will be at that level in a few years? lots of great sites....Enjoy them?.Download the pages??? take them apart. Play with them??. See how they are built. What the code looks like. Start to think about what you like about the page, dislike about the page?as a user??.what?s cool?? what you?d like to learn to do next?.Example??? you might think the fading rollovers on the dropdown menu are really cool?.. Where to start??look at the code??.highlight the menu in the design view??..then look in the code view .. You see it is JavaScript??.. Go to www.javascript.com ?. do a search on menus??.see what comes up?find the right script?..or a better one???lol??. Check out the code?check out the instructions????try to copy and paste it into a new page in an html editor?. Play with it, change the parameters?? soon you will make it your own?repeat several times .... till it works? then thats one more skill you?ve attained?.. this is just an example??skill by skill you build your knowledge?.. If you look at enough html code and java script, you learn by osmosis?. You get to know where head tags go, What table code looks like?.. And what happens when you change it. You will know when you are ready to delve into heavy duty code?.. you will feel a sense of frustration? at you lack of code knowledge?.. then you will go to any of the great beginner sites on html?? and now thatyou have a frame of reference? and a purpose....."oooooohhhhhhhhhhh that?s what that meant!!!!! I see!??.". and a few more light bulbs go on?..you put that away?move on??.to something else?.. And now you are further along in your knowledge?..I call this backward learning?? It works!!! Start with the final product. Take it apart?.. and play? then put it back together just a little differently?..you will learn!!.
5. You need to create a folder of help sites and forums like this one?.. you can learn so much from them?. And surf them regularly?. Get the news letters??they keep you up to date, and remind you of what else you can learn next.read!! read!! read!!. In another post I will get you my list.
6. Graphics??. PLAY PLAY PLAY ? play with filters??. Resizing?? clone blushes?? etc?. make it a priority to play in your graphics program as much as possible?.. and learn about the different graphic file formats???. And what they should be used for. Which are the biggest?smallest? richest in colour? Acceptable for the web? Which allow you to create a picture with a see through back ground??.. etc.
7. Get ICQ or another community instant message program?..and create a list of people that will be able to quickly answer your 3 million questions??web designers?..graphic artists??.computer geeks? ?programmers?etc?. most are very willing to help a new learner? you can search their community on www.icq.com ?look at their skills and interest and work areas??..I know this works. I?m proof of that?. That is how I went from not being able to turn a computer on ?..to being a good web designer (notice I didn?t say great?.. ) in less than 5 years. You need people to help you with all this learning?so you wont feel so alone?...learning on a need to know basis??.which brings me to my next point??
8. Design design design!!!!!!! You learn by doing??. You learn by having a need to learn?. By being frustrated when working and needing to know how to do something so you can finish your design. Volunteer your services??create webs for friends?.. For non profit groups???. For you sports team??? for anything that has a purpose??. You will learn so much with every site you do?.
9. Keep updating your software??.my very first web was created in Netscape composer?..lol??then FrontPage?.. then coffee cup editor?hotdog ? then photo impact?. Then finally dream weaver?. Which is pretty much the standard for most designers today?As for graphics?. I started with paint shop pro?went to photo impact?then Photoshop?..and fireworks?..any of those will work great?You can download full evaluation versions of most programs?html editors?.graphics programs?..etc? Do it!!! And then do it again? till you can afford to buy the real thing??or get your hands on a copy in another way?.. (but I wont go there)..ask one of your icq friends....lol
10. Lastly?? be patient with yourself!!!!!!!!!!??.and don?t give up your day job!!!!! Learning takes time!!! Very few will ever become good enough to make enough money to live on? I have been at it for several years?? and this year Is my first year where I?m actually getting paid decent money for good work, and feel confident enough in my skills to create a business ? I never intended to become a web designer?.. I never thought I?d ever make a dime?..I just had this burning desire to learn???. To get better?. To understand?.and above all ??? to create something wonderful?.that?s what drives the learning process?? in my opinion?If you are only in it for the money?.. You will give up before you get there?.You may sell a few webs?. But you will never become a great web designer. (Just my NTBHO?.)
FYI.?My next learning area?.. ?.Flash?I have more .fla files on my computer than www.flaskits.com ?lol, and continue to take them apart as we speak?.by this time next year you will see some flash sites with my name on them??mark my words.
I know this was incredibly long? ?.. but it is something I am quite passionate about?. as a teacher?.and as a learner?...I hope this helps you to realize that you can do it too if you have the desire to learn and to create?..and a little help along the way. You see I went from that pest who asked all the questions to the one who now can answer a few of them for others ?..so its time to give back?.. I am virtualprez on ICQ? look me up if you have a web design question??? and I?ll do my best to help?
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Easy, Tiger!!! It's going to take a week to get through that lot!! ;D ;D
No, seriously, it's great to have someone like you aboard - thanks for all the information! :)
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I spent the afternoon dressing my main website (http://www.hogarth.org.uk/default.htm) up for Christmas. Notice the cavalier fashion in which I have obscured the light-coloured text by choosing an inappropriate background tile. (https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hogarth.alivewww.co.uk%2Fsmilies%2Ftonguewink.gif&hash=b8a1233fc91b7fb7d2022696e51e4ff4ede85d9c)
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Thanks Tigergal for such an excellent insight to this subject. It's very much appreciated and your advice will be very useful.
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Re: (I think rodders is right anybody wanting to make a web site should first play with the building blocks HTML).....
Sorry I have to disagree with that one... that is only a very small part..... And not at all how i learned.... Being able to code does not make you a web designer... 1.
Learning to be a good web designer is not done in a linear progression... it is a messy business...10.
Lastly?? be patient with yourself!!!!!!!!!!??.and don?t give up your day job!!!!!
Steady on Tigergal, nowhere in my post was I advocating that learning the basics of Html was the way to go about starting on a career path leading to web designing. But as rodders says, a bit of basic Html is all that is needed to make a basic web site operable. You appear to be advocating that it is detrimental for anybody to learn the basics of Html, jeez I?ll never understand women?s logic if I live to be a hundred ;)
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jeez I?ll never understand women?s logic if I live to be a hundred
Arent we fun trying to figure out though Catch ;D ;D ;D
All you really need to do is think a little more logically than the average man and youll soon get it ;)
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One of the main points I was trying to get at... is that you should start at whatever point is the most fun for you..... if you code a page and you make a horizontal rule a table and title and you are thrilled...... more power to ya..... learn as much code as you can.....enjoy.....
If i would have started there I would have quit before I even got past my first table......lol...There are so many programs where you dont need to know a lick of code and you can create a nice basic web page....
my point was that you need to attack so many areas.... in order to become a designer..... code is just one of them...and not all people can type fast or accuately or have the patience or time to code a whole page. That fella had a little web space. and he wanted to put up a nice home page........ why would he want to learn code......let him use one of the html editors and have fun....Its bad enough that we proffessional web designers have to eventually learn to code.........there will be a time in the near future where coding will be left to the programmers..... and everyone will be able to whip out a home page through the web by point and click... and they will look good.Its already somewhat available..... example...homestead.... http://www.homestead.com/~site/LO/our_software_sitebuilder.ffhtml
.so i reiterate....... whats the point of starting with code......basic or otherwise...
For some....... if you like that kind of thing....... great..... for others if its like pulling teeth.... then forget the coding and start in a program like ulead's photoimpact and have some fun...... or even (god forbid)lol frontpage..... etc.... or an online thing like www.homestead.com .... they even have a site where you can build a flash site without knowing flash... www.Balthaser.com
...to sum it up. there are more fun and productive and faster ways to get a website up and running.... just my ntbho.... based on experience.......smiles
Don't ya love controversy........smiles >:D
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lol.. I'm not going to touch that one Sandra.... I'm already walkin on the wild side here..........but i will chuckle ... If that is ok.... ;D
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No Sandra, because women do most of their thinking lying down, they fail to see the bigger picture ;)
Anyway you'll like this one I'm sure
In the hospital the relatives gathered in the waiting room, where their family member lay gravely ill. Finally, the doctor came in looking tired and sombre. "I'm afraid I'm the bearer of bad news," he said as he surveyed the worried faces. "The only hope left for your loved one at this time is a brain transplant. It's an experimental procedure, very risky but it is the only hope. Insurance will cover the procedure, but you will have to pay for the brain yourselves."
The family members sat silent as they absorbed the news. After a great length of time, someone asked, "Well, how much does a brain cost?" The doctor quickly responded, "$5,000 for a male brain, and $200 for a female brain.
The moment turned awkward. Men in the room tried not to smile, avoiding eye contact with the women, but some actually smirked. A man,unable to control his curiosity, blurted out the question everyone wanted to ask,"Why is the male brain so much more?"
The doctor smiled at the childish innocence and explained to the entire group, "It's just standard pricing procedure. We have to mark down the price of the female brains, because they've actually been used."
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Creep! ;D ;D
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Thanks TG. You're right, of course. I'm still stuck in the darks ages using Notepad. I do find it gives me complete control over the way I want my particular site to look, though.
Back a ways up this thread, I merely offered it as one method that I happen to favour. Sane people are likely to be more comfortable with Dreamweaver, Frontpage, or a web-based design tool. Luv ya! ;)
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Ihis is so true Catch :)
Also they're so much better as they fit in that space between the ears and not between the legs ;)
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Back a ways up this thread, I merely offered it as one method that I happen to favour. Sane people are likely to be more comfortable with Dreamweaver, Frontpage, or a web-based design tool. Luv ya! ;)
I have Dreamweaver but have never even installed it so I cant comment on its ease(or difficulty) of use.
I have used Namo but have only used it to make a very basic one and its just text and photos at the moment.One day I may get adventurous and venture into doing another one :-*
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There isnt a day goes by that i dont wish i had a programming background, could type decently and had the patience you must possess......... and yes i am forever cleaning up code from those editors..lol
I just know me...... and my limitations....... so to solve my problem i took on a partner that lives to figure out code......he constantly amazes me...I tell him i want it to look like this. do this... here are graphics... and layout and colour. the page design.. and away he goes..... dont get me wrong..... I can take apart code too...... but why would i deprive him of the pleasure........lol ;)
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No point having a dog and barking your self Tiger is there ;)
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Creep! ;D ;D
Don't let em suss you Simon is the key, but I do like a bit of a windup. Best mileage is to be got out of the hardline feminist's, but all our lovlies are really nice cute I think ;D
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yer right, I know the petrol goes in here, but why wont it work ??? girls don't ya just lov em to bits >:D
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Hi everyone it's my first posting here and perhaps a bit off topic, but I just had to say that I fancy Sandra and she's also got a nice looking dog too lol.
Cheers
Rick
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I am soooooo jealous Rick ;) I have a nice cat would that do ;D :P :-*
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Now it's like this Rick 1486 >:(
Welcome to the forum and all that but you are jumping the queue here.
Sandra is a rose that i've been cultivating for quite some time and you treading on my toes here. :P
Have fun and enjoy other parts of the forum ;) :)
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Hi Rick, Welcome to PC Pals!
As Greenking said, you'll have to join the queue for Sandra...
...and she's not cheap! (https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apax34.dsl.pipex.com%2Fsmileys%2Fhehh.gif&hash=7214e912f864b1a91993c80ccba070e69d1adfbe) :baad:
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or avaliable before midday as a rule ;D
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Can I claim to have got the first celebrity stalker on Pals ;)
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Just a word to the wise, Rick. If Sandra ever offers to take you aloft, just politely say no. She can often be a bit economical when fuelling up.
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Just an update as far as programs go.Found a program called CuteSitebuilder 4 which seems to be user friendly available as a Trial version from here :
http://www.cuteftp.com/cutesitebuilder/
Have a look and see if you like using it and let me know if you are thinking of purchasing it ;)
What happened to my stalker by the way :'(
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Well thought I'd have a look here, and it all looks very confusing!!
See sandra pulled again ;)
Gonna look at some of the site's mentioned here.
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Bear in mind, some of the stuff in this thread is quite old, Michelle. Some things may have been updated since the thread started. :)
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Yeah thanks Simon, its somewhere to start tho.
I've found loads out all ready - there's alot about for total novices,. ??? this could keep me busy for a long time lmao