PC Pals Forum
Technical Help & Discussion => Broadband, Networking, PC Security, Internet & ISPs => Topic started by: Moreno on January 04, 2009, 21:15
-
Hi Guys,
I recently went to my parents house to install a Belkin Wireless Modem Router and replace the Talktalk default modem that they give you. All seems installed fine and when in the admin of the belkin it says it is connected. I also set up security on it. I have tried on two laptops and both show a strong signal between them and the router....so all good so far....
Problem is that the internet is serious slow. Pages wont load, if they do it takes ages! I even tried to do a broadband speed test and I couldnt even get that up and running. I did a speed test via my iphone and I am reading download speeds of 17kb!!!
Can anyone shed any light?
thanks in advance
-
any ideas what package they are on / how far from the exchange, if I'm right talk talk just use the BT connection don't they?
-
Can you do a speed test with http://test.speedtester.bt.com and also post the router stats? That might give a better idea was to what might be going on.
-
Ok, I couldnt do a speed test as it wouldnt even connect to the page it was so slow....
They are 1.85 miles from the exchange and yes if I recall Talktalk use the BT lines. How can I post the Router stats? What do you need?
thanks
-
This should help you to find the router stats, but really, the BT speedtest is the most important, as it's the only one which tells what your line profile is. If you can't get it, though, you can't get it, and hopefully someone might be able to help from the router information.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php
-
Without any data, eg sync speed, noise margin, attenuation and throughput, we can only guess. If this has only happened since you installed the router, the first place I would look is at MTU, or possible interference on the wireless channel. What OS is in use?
-
When I get home I will do a data collection for you and post it.
The OS is XP on this occassion...it was slow before, but nothing like this.
-
XP allows you to tweak MTU, so that will be one option to explore.
-
Ok, sorry for the delay. I have finally got back round to my parents and have checked the MTU. The MTU was set to 1454 and I have read online that Talk Talk recommend 1432 so have changed to that. I cant manage to find the other info you need.
I have saved the changes and the problem still continues......
-
Can you borrow an alternative router? Really, the only way to proceed now is by a process of elimination, ie see if the router is 'unsympathetic' to the line, try swapping filters, test at the master socket with everything else unplugged (or at the test socket behind the faceplate of the master if it's an NTE5) etc.
-
I do not have another router, so I think I may just install the poxy Talk Talk modem back and then test the connection from there. At least then I can narrow it down to the connection or the router.
Each socket has a filter, but can not having a filter really slow the internet up that much?
-
If you have anything connected without a filter, eg phone, Sky box etc, it will affect the signal, in all likelihood it will cause it to drop out at times. Similarly, if there are several sockets and the ringwire is connected, that will cause significant noise on the line - I've seen that reduce speed by 1000kbps in a bad, star-wired, setup.
-
Ok, I have confirmed that all sockets that are being used have a filter. I have actually just been on the Belkin site and they have a recommendation to bring the MTU down to 1400! I am going to try that also....
-
I have cracked it.....
They recently had Sky HD installed and when I unplug the telephone socket from the back the internet goes back to normal. Looks like I will have to get them to call the sky men back to sort this out, it has to be a line problem.
-
his should help you to find the router stats, but really, the BT speedtest is the most important, as it's the only one which tells what your line profile is. If you can't get it, though, you can't get it, and hopefully someone might be able to help from the router information.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php
This page just times out Simon....could someone try it for me? :dunno:
-
Thanks, but it is working now and I have isolated it back to the SKY HD. I will have to get a sky engineer out to see what they have done.
-
I have cracked it.....
They recently had Sky HD installed and when I unplug the telephone socket from the back the internet goes back to normal. Looks like I will have to get them to call the sky men back to sort this out, it has to be a line problem.
Is the Sky box filtered? Unless they have multi-room, I'd recommend leaving the box unplugged - Sky don't tend to police single box installations. Sky boxes can kill an ADSL connection, they are so noisy. :(
-
What do they actually use the line for? The box is filtered but goes through to another socket which the sky man has put a small splitter adaptor on.....
-
Whilst in contract I used to disconnect my phone line and was pestered a few times by Sky so they do police it I dont know how much but I got a few calls and a couple of letters from them.....the years is well and truely up now and I never hear from them......but they can get on your nerves,reminding you of the T&Cs
-
For disconnecting the phone line? If they rung I would tell them exactly what it was doing to my line and as their engineer installed it they should fix it. :o:
-
Would they believe this though....When we endured these calls we had Sky+ and multiroom I have just asked my wife and she confirms that they stated if we did not reconnect then it was a breach and that any discounts we had for this package would cease and full priced package would be charged.................its fun believe me ':|
-
Yeh I can imagine the amount of cr*p they would spout, so thanks for the advise, lets see what they say eh. I think really we need to call the engineer out to see if he can fix. I will ring the support line on a recorded line and keep the convo incase they ever try to do me for breaching rules :crazy:
-
:np: good luck,keep us posted
-
From what I can gather, Sky only police the phone line if you have a multi-room installation, and only for the minimum term of the contract, but I don't have it myself, so can't dispute David's advice. :)
-
I do, they don't, except in multi-room installations as with David. They do that because they need both boxes to 'phone home' from the same land line to prevent fraud. In single box installations, they really aren't worried.
Moreno, Sky usually put a 'doubler' at the nearest socket. A cable from that runs to the box, where they terminate in a trailing socket. Ideally, you want the filter to be at the socket end of that cable, not the box end.
-
The filter is at the socket end, I am just trying to think of an alternative.
-
An alternative to what? The phone line is only needed to order Sky Box Office or PPV events. Sky want it connected in the hope that you will use interactive services, but beyond that it has no use. If it's not needed, just leave it disconnected.
-
I suppose you are right, disconnected it is!!!
-
It works for me. ;)
-
Thanks guys for all this....least I got the MTU changed anyway...this was way off and apparently this alone causes so many problems with Talk talk.
Thanks again
-
NP, glad you're sorted. :thumbs:
-
Ok, right have done further investigation.....see what you guys think.
The internet is now working fine, but only if I have no more than 2 phones directly plugged into the telephone sockets. If I plug a further phone into a telephone socket, the red light will come up on the router as we no longer have internet.
Any idea of what can be going on? Is this the router causing the problems and is a little too sensitive? When we had the Talk talk modem in they had 3 phone plugged into their individual telephone sockets....
now I am really confused! Any ideas???
-
Where are you positioning the microfilters to the phone sockets? If you use a socket doubler to connect more than one phone to a single socket, plug the microfilter into the telephone socket first, then plug the socket doubler into the phone socket of the microfilter. Then plug your telephones into the socket doubler.
-
We are always putting the filter first into the socket then the phone into the filter.
-
Well, that's my extensive knowledge spent. Over to Rik. ;D
-
It should work, but maybe one of the phones is noisy and the filters aren't particularly good. Is it one phone which causes the problem, or just having three connected? What sort of phones are they, eg DECT, wired? What brand of filters are you using?
-
There used to be a maximum of 4 REN that your phones hadnt to exceed in total, not sure if thats still the case or not or if that would affect ADSL. Maybe worth checking what all your phones add up to when its working and if it goes over 4 when you add another that stops it working.
-
Sorry Sandra, what is 4 REN?
-
REN I think stood for Ringer Equivalent Number and we were told that we hadnt to have a total of more than 4 when adding all the phones together.
It came in when most exchanges changed from pulse to tone dialling.
Some of the early phones had a REN as high as 2.5 so if you used 2 of those phones on the same line you could have problems, most of the later phones had a REN of 1 so you could have up to 4 phones on the same line without any problems.
I think it only mattered for the phones that are actually connected to the line so if you had DECT phones with only one base station connected to the line you could have as many phones as that base station supported.
I have just looked at the base staion of my DECT phone, the label on the underside of it says REN = 1 so it looks like it still may be a requirement but whether that affects the ADSL or just the voice side I am unsure.
-
It shouldn't affect ADSL, Sandra. It was just about how much ringing current the line could support. In practice, modern phones take a lot less than the old 'bell' ringers, but are still marked as REN 1. In addition, micro-filters contain the circuitry to generate the ring currant, so REN is less of a problem in that respect too. That said, too many devices on the line could be causing a fault, possibly HR, to show which would not normally happen.
-
You can get an idea how noisy the line is by getting a profile for your modem (assuming your modem is one of the ones supported) by running DMT on it. This allows you to get a "bandwidth picture" of the range of tones used for your adsl line.
Available here: http://dmt.mhilfe.de/ make sure you get the correct one for your modem.
-
That's useful, TQ. :thumb:
-
It might be worth mentioning that the 2-Wire 2700 has the feature built in.
-
Thanks, Rik. :)