PC Pals Forum
Technical Help & Discussion => Broadband, Networking, PC Security, Internet & ISPs => Topic started by: JK on January 25, 2008, 00:57
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Hi
I have been with Pipex for a couple of years now, I have the 1M service.
Just recently I have noted very,very slow service. I have used the ADSL speed tests and note that at evenings
and weekends I am getting between 300 and 400K, not even 512. During the day on weekdays I get the full 1M service.
The small print says up to 1M. Any recommendations of what to do?. Can you recomend another ISP that will deliver?
Another question.
I have an internal ADSL modem. When you connect it reports the connection speed( local to exchange, not the ISP connection). It used to say 2M with my 1M connection. Now it says 5M? any ideas, has BT upgraded the local lines or do I have a problem? :cry:
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Depends where you are JK.
I recently moved from Pipex on their 1mb service which I had been on for years for £23-44 to BeThere on there up to 24mb unlimited, unthrottled, uncapped for £18 per month plus £2 for email and webspace.
I am very pleased with them so far although I "only" get 14.5mb down and 1.2mb up :cry:
I have just downloaded the file off Renos link for the space plane and it came down at 1.35mbps ;D
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Join the club JK. I'm experiencing exactly the same problems with BTInternet into which I am foolishly locked for another year. :bawl:
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It's probably Pipex (Tiscali) over subscribing and getting congested during peak times. If you want a decent ISP, JK, I would personally recommend www.idnet.com, who I moved to from Pipex last year. Customer service, should you need it, is just two rings away on the phone, and is also a free number, but apart from a billing query, which turned out to be my fault anyway, I haven't had to contact them. Most people who join, and use the forums (http://www.idnetters.co.uk), report better speeds than they had with their previous ISP, and a hell of a lot of Pipex customers are joining!
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This will get you loads of different ISPs JK ;D ;D
Me, I'm with www.surfanytime.co.uk/ who also run www.fireflyinternet.com/ great ISP been with them for years now all through dial up to 512 and now on 2MB. no complaints very very few problems. yes they are a bit dearer than others but it does me and Id rather pay a bit extra and get a good service. if any just a phone call away too. even had them phone me at home to sort out a modem problem in the early days. forums usually manned all hours.
I very nearly twisted Simons arm to join a while back too ;D dont know what got into him when he went elsewhere, must have had a bang on the head ;D ;D ;D ;)
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There are some dodgy members on that forum, Baz! ;D
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dont know what you mean ;) ;D ;D ;D
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Thank you for your advice.
Sandra I cannot get the BeThere in my area, what a shame.
The other ISP?s that you mention all have appear to have monthly download
limits. Idnet sounds good, ''No contention on our network is achieved by not oversubscribing our broadband services and ensuring that bandwidth investment exceeds customer demand.??
Any views on AOL? :dunno:
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AOL = TalkTalk = run for your life. :(
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I've just left AOL after seven years faithful subscription. It was simply too pricey for the service offered - £17.99 per month for up to 2mbs and no replacement modem when I needed one for my new Vista machine. The download speeds were often slower than advertised, although they were uncapped. Moreover, the software was predatory, trying to take over the computer.
Now I'm with O2 which is much cheaper and is also uncapped. Downloads are faster and I'm much happier.
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How much you planning on downloading JK?. Im on a 30GB limit and find it more than enough only occasionally getting close to it. Some companies say they have unlimited download but have a Fair Usage Policy in place and keep a check on what you download.
its all down to personnel choice in the end though.
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Now I'm with O2 which is much cheaper and is also uncapped. Downloads are faster and I'm much happier.
I wonder how long they will sustain unlimited usage at those prices? Is there any port blocking or traffic shaping that you know of, Gill?
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I don't think there's any port blocking or traffic shaping, but I wouldn't know how to test for it :dunno: . All I can say is that both His Lordship and me can connect to the internet simultaneously on separate computers and downloads are still much quicker than before. I've also been downloading podcasts about 4 or 5 times more quickly.
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Port blocking mainly affects torrents, so if you find them to be slower than expected, that might be a clue. If they are doing that, it should be documented somewhere in the T&Cs, but if you're happy with the service, that's all that matters, Gill. It's just that truly unlimited ISPs are quite hard to find these days, especially at the prices O2 are offering, hence my scepticism. I have an 'unlimited' data bolt on with my O2 phone contract, but on further reading, it seems that a 'Fair Use Policy' (FUP) applies, and it is 'unlimited', as long as I don't use more than 200Mb. A bit like saying you can have any colour you like, as long as it's black. :)
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O2 is BeTheres parent company, they both are unlimited, subject to a fair use policy.
I think the fair use policy is there just in case, as according to the Be forums, no one has been warned about heavy usage even with one guy claiming to download around 750 gig per month on a regular basis
:o
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O2 is BeTheres parent company, they both are unlimited, subject to a fair use policy.
Oh, I didn't know that, Sandra. Out of curiosity, I did try to see if I could get it, and it's apparently still not available in my area.
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They are expanding all the time from what I hear Simon, so keep checking you never know :)
They enabled my area about 14 months ago after initially only being available around the London area.
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I think the fair use policy is there just in case, as according to the Be forums, no one has been warned about heavy usage even with one guy claiming to download around 750 gig per month on a regular basis
:o
:o :o :o blimey 750GB per month............is he still there or did they 'review' his contract.
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I always thought 02 was owned by BT.
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No he hasnt even had a warning or been throttled as far as I know.
BT used to own O2 when they were Cellnet but I think at the same time or shortly after they changed to O2 they were sold off to a Swedish firm.
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I will have to make my mind up soon on another ISP. The other evening I was getting 218k download.
I have spoken to pipex about getting my mac code and the guy there said why was I thinking of leaving?. Told him since tiscali took over my download speeds have dropped. He said he had spoken to a customer who left tiscali to join pipex, now they want to leave pipex.
It appears that most of the upto 8M services have download limits.
I have no idea of how much bandwidth I use and have just installed netmeter to check. :dunno:
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Have a look here (http://www.pc-pals.com/smf/index.php?topic=24464), JK. There's a free month offer on at the moment, and you will get the maximum speed your line will allow (subject to any internal hardware / wiring issues), with no contention.
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Thank you Simon.
All the packages on ADSL max have download limits and I am not sure yet of what to go for. I could go for one that has a small limit and pay extra if I go over, or go for a large one which I may not use all. With Pipex I am paying £23.44 a month for 1M. They did offer to change me over to a upto 8M service with 30G limit for £9.99 a month. But I can see little point if I am put onto a Tiscali server that would have high contention and bandwidth restrictions.
On the 16th I put Netmeter on my PC and put 5G in the limit box. Today it shows 1.577G(down and up) used. I have not downloaded much this month. :-\
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I can say, from experience, that there is no contention or throttling on IDNet, but obviously, your ultimate speed also depends on other factors, such as your distance from the exchange, your internal wiring and hardware, etc. Uploads don't count either, so on the 30Gb, £24.99 per month package, you would get the full 30Gb allowance of downloads, then it's £1 per Gb thereafter.
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It's perhaps worth noting, JK, that you can move between packages at any time without charge, with one exception - and that's a downgrade from Home SuperMax.
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Thanks Rik.
Can you have a free month on the Home Max and revert to the Home Lite? Or is the free offer for the package you want to start out on.
On other ISP packages you can change at anytime but you then start a new 12 month contract.
Is the one month contract at all times? :)
If appears to be the best deal around at the moment and 0800 UK based.
Will have to use my MAC code soon before pipex bill me again.
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Whatever package you start on, you will get the free month, JK, and you can switch packages any time for no charge, the only exception, as Rik said, is if you downgrade from SuperMax. It's a one month contract at all times.
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Thank you Simon.
I will have to pay Pipex(Tiscali) on the 02/03 again so I better start as soon as possible. How long does it take to change and can you offer any advice on adsl max?
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You will have to pay Piscali again anyway, as there is a 30 day cancellation period, which they will insist on. You need to get moving with the MAC request (phone them in the morning!!), as you only have till the 29th to get the free month with IDNet, and Pipex will probably take their time issuing it, but by law, they have to issue it within 5 working days. You should just make it, providing you get the MAC by Friday, and sign up with IDNet on the same day. If Pipex haven't issued it by Friday, get on to them again, and threaten them with Ofcom if you have to.
Once you have the MAC, fill in the registration form on IDNet.com, and they will take it from there. It usually takes around 3-5 working days, depending on how quickly BT get their act together, and also depending on whether you have been LLU'd by Pipex / Tiscali, but IDNet will inform you of the migration date in good time. On the day of migration, all you should need to do is change the login details on your router or modem, and you'll be on IDNet. You can actually set up and use your IDNet emails before the migration, as soon as you have the registration confirmation and login details from them. If you are already on a MAX service with Pipex, it should be a straightforward switch, and you should immediately notice an improvement in speed. If you are on a fixed rate with Pipex, there is a 10 day training period, where the BT software works out the maximum stable speed your line is capable of. You may experience slowish speeds or occasional disconnections during the first few days of the training period, then it should settle down.
Hope that helps!
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Hi Simon I am with pipex and cannot see any 30 day thing. I have the MAC now. Perhaps you could tell me if pipex will charge me.
When I contacted them for the MAC they said when asked that they would refund me, if billed and I changed.
They, pipex did send me around the houses to get the MAC number. Had to call lots of high rate numbers to get it. That is after
they told me it would take 5 days to obtain it.
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Hi Simon
I am on a standard 1M connection. My modem shows a 4.7M connection 44dB att 9.3 Sig to noise.
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Hi JK,
I'm afraid the numbers don't mean a lot to me, but Rik will probably be around later and he will comment.
If you already have your MAC, then there's no reason not to go ahead. Pipex will still charge you, if you are still within the 30 day cancellation period (they hide this well in their T&Cs), but you should then get a refund pro-rata in the form of a cheque in the post. I did when I migrated away from them. Once you've made the last payment, make sure you cancel the direct debit with your bank, as they won't do it, and are quite likely to continue charging you otherwise, then it's a hassle getting it back.
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Hi Simon the guy at Pipex said nothing to me about a 30 day period. If fact he was more worried than me that I would be charged again afer I left. I have had a look at the pipex site and can see no 30 day period in the contract. I have been with them since 2005. Are you sure about the 30 day thing , I will have to look into it.
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Hi Simon
Can you pay Idnet by direct debit. Pipex was paid by debit card payments which you cannot cancel. On only the payee can cancel.
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Sandra can you offer advice as Simons gone for today?
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Pipex want a 30 day notice of cancellation, although depending how far you are into that month you may get away with a few days less.
I think they took my last payment a few days before I cancelled and they said that they taken the request for the MAC number as notification of the 30 day period.
It probably depends on who is handling your billing on the day as to how they interpret the cancellation rule, as a MAC request would usually infer that you were leaving them within 30 days as thats all it is valid for.
No payee can overrule your instructions to the bank as far as I know.
Email Pipex to say that you are cancelling the DD/Debit Card Payment and send a copy of that to your bank, along with a request for them to cancel your DD/Debit Card Payment, that should stop the DD/Debit Card Payment from the date you say you want to cancel it.
You will have t owait for Simon or Rik for the info on IDNet
:)
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I can only concur with Sandra about the 30 day cancellation period, and can say that Pipex also gave me conflicting advice, but the 30 day term is valid.
You can pay IDNet by direct debit, which is much easier to cancel than card payments.
If you're still unsure about the 30 day thing, I will try to find it on their site later, but I'm not on my PC at the moment.
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Hi Sandra and Simon.
The Idnet man confimed to me that pipex want 30 days notice. I was going to get the free trial, but I not going to pay pipex for another month whilst I am on idnet. I hope Idnet extend the offer.
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Hi JK,
IDNet are usually very sympathetic to these situations. If you ring and speak to Simon, he will delay your migration so that you can 'pay off' Pipex, and you'll probably still get your free month if you register before the 29th. They will probably also adjust your billing cycle, so you don't end up paying twice in a month. Just explain the position, and IDNet will do their best to accomodate. That's why I like them so much! ;)
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Just to add, it's actually very difficult to avoid paying the extra month to Pipex, because of the 30 day thing. They always seem to manage to work it so that the next payment falls within the 30 days. :(
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Your notice period will be in the terms & conditions, JK, it's usually 30 days with most ISPs, and it runs from the date on which your requested your MAC, not the date on which you got it. Give IDNet a ring on 0800 0267237 and they will take you through the migration process and probably give you a date on the spot. If you do it by phone, you can get any questions you have answered and choose your username.
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Hi Simon
Can you pay Idnet by direct debit. Pipex was paid by debit card payments which you cannot cancel. On only the payee can cancel.
Yes, DD, standing order, EFT or a CCA on a card.
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Thank you all for your kind help.
I am waiting now till my notice period is nearly up. My ISP Pipex has already placed me on ADSL max line (download connection to ISP limited to 1M), but I can upload at up to 448K. My modem status shows connection speeds up to 5.8M.
I have looked at the sites relating to ADSL max services and the 10 day period. I have also been monitoring the line and note the the
SNR margin is quite low at high speeds and also note that in the evenings this goes down to near zero. My modem then reconnects at a lower rate, last time 4960K. I would like to know the down SNR margin that BT use's.I was told 6 is this correct? Then if I forced my modem to reconnect if the value goes lower, I would then have an idea of my stable speed on the new service. Was also told that the stable speed is rounded down to the nearest 0.5M?
Stats now: Down Up
SNR margin 6 25
Line Attn 39 24
Data rate 4960 448
The SNR margin has been down to 4 today.
Thank you.
8-)
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You have a very nice SNR margin Down, but it seems a little high Up. That's about as far as I dare to speculate, but I can guarantee you will get better than 1Mb download speed with IDNet, if you choose to go with them. I'll point Rik over here, as he's good at all this stuff. May not be tonight though. :)
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Hi JK
Max is a rate-adaptive service, which means that it will run as fast as your line allows. That's the theory. In practice BT uses a system it calls profiles to reduce load on its computer systems. This system groups sync speeds (which step in 32k increments) into bands, for which a profile (or throttle) is allocated. The profile is always below the minimum level for the group and well below the maximum. For this reason, if you live on the cusp, so to speak, a 32k sync speed change can change your throughout by 500k.
For your current sync speed, you would get a profile of 4000kbps.
It is normal for the noise margin to change during the day. It will be at its highest in the mornings and lowest at night. This effect is due to increased electrical activity at night and the increased propagation of radio waves - ADSL operates in the MW band.
TBH, for a 39db attenuation, I'd expect you to be seeing speeds around the 6000kbps mark or a bit higher. It may be that there are things that you can do to improve your speed. Do you know if you have an NTE5 master socket, the kind where the bottom half of the faceplate can be removed? Do you have multiple hard-wired extensions? What router/modem are you using? What else is connected to the line, eg phones, Sky box, fax machine etc.
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Hi Rik
Stats now: Down Up
SNR margin 10 22
Attn 39 24
Data 5184 448
I have no extensions just the router and phone pluged in. I am using a cheap filter and have just ordered a quality one to see if it makes any difference. The SNR margin goes way down to 0(@ 5M) on weekday evenings. The line goes to a pole just accross a narrow road.
The exchange is 1.93Km away by road. I am using a D-Link DSL G624T.
thanks.
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With no extensions, there should be no noise pickup in your internal wiring. Changing the filter is a good move, but if that doesn't help, is there anyone who you could borrow another router from? Once you've eliminated all your own equipment, it's time to get BT involved via your ISP.
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Hi Rik
I have fitted the new filter. It has not made much difference. Since fitting the new filter my speed has remained at 4896, it used to go up and down. Is there any advantage to be had for changing the modem lead, for a high quality sheilded one? You said try a new router, well the router is brand new. I used to use an internal PCI modem, with 10M extension cable, the modem only supported 256K up.
The connection speed varied between 4 and 5M, could not monitor the SNR margin.
There is no point in getting BT involved as I am paying for a 1M service from my present ISP. They have moved me onto ADSL Max equipment, which is quite nice as I can see what I could get before I change and get the full service.
I am just trying to sort things out before moving to IDNET. Would be quite happy to have a fixed 4M service. I think there is little point in trying to trace down evening noise on a line. Been told that, SNR margin, is different for everyone and line lenght is not involved.
Trying to get perfection on a medium that was never designed to do it.
When I join IDNET would I have to go through a 10 day period?
Should I join IDNetters?
Thank you very much Rik for for all you advice
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Hi JK,
Rik won't be about till later on, but I can answer a couple of your points.
When I join IDNET would I have to go through a 10 day period?
That only happens when you switch from a fixed line rate, to a MAX service, and it's so that the BT software can determine the maximum stable speed your line is capable of. Realistically, things usually settle down after about 3-5 days, and even prior to that, although you may experience slower speeds at first, any actual disruption to the service is usually minimal. I'm not sure what you are on at the moment, but hopefully that will answer the question for you.
Should I join IDNetters?
Rik, or myself, would always help you out here, and of course, we want you to stay on PC Pals, but you are free and welcome to join IDNetters as well.
I'll leave the rest of the tech stuff to Rik, but you won't regret moving to IDNet. :)
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Thank you Simon
I don't know the answer in my case. I have a fixed rate line (1M) which my ISP has upgraded to ADSL max.
I have a fixed rate service 1M. But my exchange connection is on ADSL MAX. If appears that I have been going throught the 10 day peroid with my present ISP. Now settled down to 4896K. With asking Rik about IDNetters was not leaving PC pals but asking the questions I need to ask with my proposed new ISP. ::)
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With asking Rik about IDNetters was not leaving PC pals but asking the questions I need to ask with my proposed new ISP.
Of course, I realised that, just having you on. ;)
If you are already on ADSL MAX, and migrate to an equivalent MAX service, there will be no 10 day training period. All that would happen is, providing BT get things right (which they usually do), on the day of the migration, you will lose the connection to your current ISP, and you would need to change the log in details on your router / modem to the ones given to you by IDNet.
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Hi JK
Max is a rate-adaptive service, iow, it will try and go as fast as your line can support. The single most critical factor in that is your downstream attenuation, which for you is 39db. At that level, I'd expect you to be achieving a sync speed of 5-6000kbps. The other factor though is the quality of the line and its susceptibility to noise, and that's much harder to quantify. I sync at around 3500 on a 56db attenuation. My neighbours sync at between 512k and 2000k, the attenuation figures are similar within +/-2db.
Normally, BT give you a target noise margin of 6db, and run the line as fast as possible with the margin. In your case, it looks like the dynamic line management software has found your line unstable at that speed and so increased the target margin to 9db. That will cost you about 500k of sync speed.
A shielded ADSL cable (RJ11-RJ11) may help, but the reason I suggested borrowing another router is that different makes work better with different lines, with a possible speed difference of 1000kbps or so. It also eliminates any possible fault with the router.
As Simon has said, you shouldn't have to re-train with a like-for-like migration. There is no fixed-rate 4Mbps service though, the fastest fixed rate product is 2Mbps.
You're very welcome to join IDNetters, as is everyone, but I'll always try to answer any questions here. Obviously, though I spend most of my time over there.
HTH
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Thank you Rik.
Although my attenuation is 39bD my line must be on the noisy side.
Stats now:
Down Up
SNR 5 23
Attn 39 24
Rate 5024 448.
Having at present a 1M service any figure over that would be a bonus.I have friends into ADSL max and they say, like you neighbours can have different figures. I have spoken to IDnet. They were supprised that I was connected to ADSL max equipment, and said that the transfer could now take up to 5 days in my case.
I am on a fixed rate service 1M with pipex. They have placed me on ADSL max equipment. Hence I am seeing the connection figures.
The only plus point is that I can upload at up to 448K. Which I have.
I am not into mega high line rates, just a service above 1M. Looking at my line stats I would be please to have a 4500 connection.
Thank you Rik
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You should get that easily, JK, and as you are on Max (albeit throttled), you'll have no training period, just change the router login details and go. It may take a few days for your profile to catch up, but you should see a throughput 4x your current level.
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Hi Rik and all.
Thank you for your kind comments and help.
I telephoned IDnet and a young lady gave me some nice advice. She said that my figures where typical of other customers she has had from Pipex/Tiscali. The low SNR margin figures are not be due to the line but crosstalk high usage etc on my present ISP. She feels sure that if I changed to IDnet I would not have any problems.If I did have any problems they would deal with it.
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Just trying the impossible getting a MAC number from Pipex.
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Remind them that you know about Ofcom's rules, and that you will be complaining if they don't issue the MAC within five working days. ;)
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Just trying the impossible getting a MAC number from Pipex.
Hi I was with tiscali until god intervened and shone a large ray of light in the direction of IDNET,I wrote for my mac code and they ignored the letter even though it was recorded,but with an Email mentioning Ofcom would you believe I had it within the hour,ok Email and a phone call but it did get me out of there and into a much better place.Good luck don't get tempted to stay they may offer you all sorts,like Prozac,aspirin,
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They'd do better to offer string sedatives, David. ;)
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I am still having major problems in getting a MAC code from Pipex. They only issue MAC codes via email
If you send them an email they request you telephone them on on a high rate number. If you call them on the number stated your are directed on a circle of high rate lines only to finish where your started. Up your own ****.
I have sent them a mail tonight requesting my MAC code and saying if I get the run around I will get Oftel involved.
I also asked if I had to call high rate telephone numbers I would like the cost refunded.
Before I got stuck with Pipex I was with Claranet. I only wish now that they were still a private customer not a business based company.
When I called them for a MAC code I was given it then and there on the telephone.
Claranet is a great company.
Badpianoplayer I hope my Oftel comment to Pipex will take effect.
;)
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There's no reason why they can't give you the MAC code over the phone, JK. Personally, I would be ringing, telling them you have waited over 5 days, that they are now breaking the law, and that you won't take no for an answer. Even if they give it to you, I would still report them to Ofcom. I can't believe how such a once great company have gone so bad.
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Hi ya,I had the same sort of problems and the final leg of this was me telephoning and with;lets say a dedication to get my way(sounds good that) I did state that copies of letters had been kept also were sent recorded delivery,also all Emails which had been ignored had also been kept and I didn't really give him any option but to issue my mac code which was in my Email box within 30 mins.I cant speak how others do it but as far as I am aware Mac codes will only be sent via Email,but I am only referring to what I learned through it all.I didn't mention things like phone call expenses etc as I wanted to get the Mac out of there,.
I just convinced the guy on the phone that of com would be getting all the detail;s if he couldn't resolve it
I'm not qualified on how to get the magic key out of them but the process appears to be the same as others.I would not be tempted to Email them again as they can,and did with me ignore them.The golden rule seems to be get the buggers on the phone and with luck and a fair wind get them to issue the Mac code which I really hope for you will be forthcoming.mine was.As for phone costs etc worry about these afterwards.for me it was money well spent.good luck keep us posted how you get on,but mentioning ofcom worked in my case :pcpunch:
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They refuse point blank to give a MAC code via email. They request that you telephone them on a high rate number. When you do you
are directed to call another number then another and another. When you get throught they say they can only issue MAC codes via email.
I have posted a very naughty email to them requesting a MAC code within 5 days or will complain to Oftel.
Perfore I joined Pipex I was with Claranet. When I telephone them for MAC code I was given one on the spot.
I resent Pipex giving me the run around on high rate numbers. I did call another ISP , before hearing about IDnet, on a high rate line
the call centre guy directed me straight away to a freephone line. Pipex did say they would do me favour and not charge me for a MAC code? What should I do cancel my payments to them? :(
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For what its worth and Simon will know better than I but I did a lot of research on your last point and saw examples of people stopping their payments before getting Mac codes and it proved very costly move in tine.I discovered that the route is to free yourself first or they will or could have a case for not issuing the code if there is money outstanding,although you are in the right,I took the route I just wanted out.
If I recall I took Simon's advice and had no problems really,yes I put my foot down and got it.All I can say is I was told that Mac codes would be via Email and thats how I got it despite all the other avenues.I am at a loss what they are doing goes against everything and reading the riot act and using ofcom worked for me ,it may not sound all that great at the moment but with a little shove you will get your Mac code.I wish you all good luck and hope your code is with you.
Chase any monies up after you have gained your freedom.
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Yes, don't stop the payments, JK, or you could find yourself in a battle to get your line freed, although I believe that the 30 day cancellation term starts from when you request the MAC, not when they decide to issue it, so don't let them con you out of an extra month. Try the following geographical numbers, rather than the high rate lines: 01707 299506 and 01707 299507. I find it unbelievable that they think they can get away with treating people like this. Have you actually tried phoning OFCOM? They may be able to give you some more advice.
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Thank you all.
To keep you up to date, today had a email reply from Pipex( 5days), no MAC number.
They just ask further questions what is my id, telephone number etc, which they already know.
I am billed by them on the 2nd of each month and with the 30 day cancellation period they are making sure they get the May payment from me. They are very very reluctant to issue the MAC code.
I will repeat something which I have already told you. Was with Claranet and wanted to move to Pipex. Instant MAC code then and there, they told me to contact them as soon as I migrated so I was not billed again by them.
Pipex have stiched me up, if I get a MAC code it is valid for 25days and the cancellation period is 30days.
If I get the code and move they will still bill me when I am with the new ISP.
Can you advise me what to do if they do issue a MAC code and I move.
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Advice is easy to give and I would await some agreement.but for what its worth.Your first goal if to free yourself,once you have got the mac code (and you will) you should be a little more patient and get all control away from isp,once you are safely tucked into bed with IDnet or whoever,then you will be free to stop payments and dispute it if you feel do inclined. I took the view that ok I may lose a few quid,but what you gain far outweighs anything else.
I know its difficult,trust me my migration had major problems which saw downtime of I think about a month.try not to personalize this,it is not personal although it feels it,it is business and the cooler your head the more objective you will be and get this resolved in your favor if it is to be done.
With all things in life a cool head and hand often win the day,sounds silly but you can almost view this as a game,you opponent only holds all the cards because he has the advantage at the moment ie the mac once that is our of his hands and your service is secure with someone else,the ball is in your court.Don t get stressed out over a few pounds.it will soon fade and remember fair,unfair will not come into it.I have rambled enough stay focused on the MC then either breath a sigh of relief or enter a battle which you may win.I wouldn't bet on it though.The thing which is against you is you care......they don't......they are not worth you getting stressed out
Be lucky
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Believe me, JK, David had a hell of a time, due to one thing and another, but that's uncommon.
As far as I understand it, the 30 day cancellation period starts when you request the MAC, not when they issue it. Hopefully you have some sort of record of that. Because of the billing cycle, it's actually very difficult to avoid paying the extra month, and you only have a window of a day or two in which to request your MAC, which you would have to carefully work out from the billing date, to avoid the extra payment. Clever, eh? ':| What Pipex should do, and indeed, did for me, is to refund you pro-rata, so if you end up paying for a whole month, but only use a few days of it with them, they should refund the rest of the payment by cheque. Don't cancel the direct debit until the final due payment has been made, then definitely do cancel it, or they may still try to take more (yes, they are that incompetent). If you are in a situation where they are claiming you owe them money, that will hold up the MAC even more. I assume the April 2nd payment has gone through? If you requested your MAC at least a few days before then, that should be your last payment, and regardless of when they now issue it, the May payment should not be due. Sorry, I appear to be rambling, but I hope that's clear. :)
As David said, your main priority at the moment is to get hold of that MAC, and then you can start to set yourself free. It shouldn't be, but it is a bit of a game, especially when dealing with a company like this, who seem to be so desparate to keep hold of customers, they are resorting to breaking the law. Get your MAC, and run for your life! ;)
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Thank you Simon.
So if I end up paying Pipex for a whole month and only use a few days I can request a refund from them?
I did hope to be on IDnet this month. But been waiting and waiting for a MAC code from pipex.If they issued one when I first requested, then I would have been on IDnet for the last month. They say they issue a MAC code within 5 days, well they cannot give me one.
Is Pipex like the hotel California you can check out any time but never leave. :cry:
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I wish I could get if for you, JK, but I can't. :( Unless there's something more to this, like some technical issue to do with your line, which they should have explained, or another legitimate reason why they can't (I'm just covering my back here, you understand), they have to give you the MAC, and if you requested it a month ago, they have already broken the law, and fallen foul of OFCOM's regulations. Technically, you shouldn't owe them any more money, as the 30 day cancellation period started when you first asked for your MAC, as I understand it. If you have that request documented, you would most probably be entitled to bring a case against them via OFCOM, but at this stage, all you need is the MAC in order to get free, set up with another ISP, then start the battle of reclaiming what they owe you.
So if I end up paying Pipex for a whole month and only use a few days I can request a refund from them?
If the payment was taken after the 30 day cancellation period, then yes, you should be able to claim it back pro-rata, but by the sound of it, you shouldn't be making any more payments, so I would be inclined to cancel the direct debit with your bank, as soon as you get your MAC. If they then think you owe them something, let them chase you for it.
Personally, I wouldn't be waiting. I would be on the phone demanding to speak to a manager, or someone that can give you the MAC immediately. It's just bullsh*t that they are telling you they can't, because if you push hard enough, they will, unless, of course, there's some legitimate technical reason why they can't give you one. You need to be telling them that you know the OFCOM regulations, and that they have broken these by failing to issue the MAC within the 5 day period. There's more info here, if you feel like reading through it:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/advice/codes/bb_migration/
Good luck!
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You will do it JK don't let it get to,there will be a warm welcome and the journey will have been worth it. all the best
:worthit: it will be trust me
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Thank you Simon
Thank you for the comment that my 30 days notice period is from when I requsted the MAC and not from that date they issue it.
I will remind them of that.
Why 'o' why will they not give me my MAC munber. They want 30 days notice and they refuse to give one in 30 days.
Just got answer yesterday requesting details already given.
This is out of this world should I be on watchdog?
I should have been on IDnet now. IDnet were offering a free month when I started out to get my MAC code. That was February.
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I should have been on IDnet now. IDnet were offering a free month when I started out to get my MAC code. That was February.
This is absolutely awful behavior and you really should write a letter to OFCOM at the least - these companies need to be told where to bugger off!
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I should have been on IDnet now. IDnet were offering a free month when I started out to get my MAC code. That was February.
Did you 'register an interest' with IDNet at the time, JK? That would have 'reserved' a free month for you.
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Believe me, JK, David had a hell of a time, due to one thing and another, but that's uncommon.
As far as I understand it, the 30 day cancellation period starts when you request the MAC, not when they issue it. Hopefully you have some sort of record of that. Because of the billing cycle, it's actually very difficult to avoid paying the extra month, and you only have a window of a day or two in which to request your MAC, which you would have to carefully work out from the billing date, to avoid the extra payment. Clever, eh? ':| What Pipex should do, and indeed, did for me, is to refund you pro-rata, so if you end up paying for a whole month, but only use a few days of it with them, they should refund the rest of the payment by cheque. Don't cancel the direct debit until the final due payment has been made, then definitely do cancel it, or they may still try to take more (yes, they are that incompetent). If you are in a situation where they are claiming you owe them money, that will hold up the MAC even more. I assume the April 2nd payment has gone through? If you requested your MAC at least a few days before then, that should be your last payment, and regardless of when they now issue it, the May payment should not be due. Sorry, I appear to be rambling, but I hope that's clear. :)
As David said, your main priority at the moment is to get hold of that MAC, and then you can start to set yourself free. It shouldn't be, but it is a bit of a game, especially when dealing with a company like this, who seem to be so desparate to keep hold of customers, they are resorting to breaking the law. Get your MAC, and run for your life! ;)
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Hi All.
My last reply from Pipex was a request to give them my full details, due to the data protection act, according to them.
I have given them all my details and they already know them. Except for a account number which I do not know and cannot find out.
Since being on broadband I have only changed ISP once. The change being from Claranet to Pipex. The MAC code was given by Claranet
straight away over the telephone. They even made sure that I would not be billed by them again and even asked me to contact them if there was any problems.
I did in my last email to Pipex say the comment made by Simon that my cancellation period should start when I requested my MAC not when they decide to issue it.
I think that I only got my last reply from them because I said Ofcom in the mail.
Rik I did call IDnet about the free month offer at the time . They guy said its up to the managers if they continue it or offer it again.
Then again it does not matter as Pipex will not issue the MAC code.
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Rik I did call IDnet about the free month offer at the time . They guy said its up to the managers if they continue it or offer it again.
Then again it does not matter as Pipex will not issue the MAC code.
If you told them you wanted to migrate, they should have 'booked you a slot' on the offer at the time. It really depends on what exactly was said.
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Hi Rik
I did contact IDnet about the free month offer at the time. There was no register an interest option. But there is not point if you are with the Hotel Califorinia of ISP's.You can check out any time but you can never leave.
Does anyone have a email addess for Ofcom? I have looked at the Ofcom site but they have postal and telephone options only.
Rik the free month was for February its now April . Yes its been that long. :(
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Oddly, JK, Ofcom don't seem to encourage email. :(
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I think this just seems to be a case of very strong perseverance, JK. I really can't understand why they would be refusing to give you your MAC. Unless there's a good reason for NOT issuing it, they are breaking the law, and while Pipex may be a lot of things, they're not stupid, and they would know this. I wish we could help you more with this, but there's nothing we can actually do, apart from offer you support and advice, which, of course, we are more than happy to do, and you are more than welcome to. I would be getting on the phone to them, and don't hang up until they give you the MAC, there and then, or a VERY good reason why they can't.
:gofor:
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Hi All
Got my mac code at last.
They issued it yesterday saying that it was valid for 25 days, no mention of the 30 day notice period was given.
Should I insist, if they question it, that it started when I requested my mac code, not when the issued it?
My only question is about ADSL Max speeds. Pipex put me on the equipment a few months ago(ISP connection fixed at 1M).
Each time I log on I see a different line connection speed, sometimes 5.7M another time 3.7M.
In the first 10 days of an adsl max service I understand you are given a line rate?. I thought that the equiptment would give you the best fixed rate ie 3.7M and stay there or does it increase it automatically? Or as I have been told that the 10 day period only fixes the lowest rate for fault reporting etc? Will an adsl max service have a fixed speed or will it always look for the highest speed.
Thanks for your help and advice.
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Its usually monitored and adjusted automatically to find the fastest stable speed that your line can handle.
After the initial 10 day training period you should have a good idea of the maximum that you are going to get.
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Now you have your MAC, you can register with your new ISP, and the migration usually takes about 3-5 working days. You will be given the activation date when you register. Are you still considering IDNet? If you did register an interest in Feb, give them a call, explain the situation, and you may still get your free month. If you didn't, then you probably won't. Whatever you decide, do it as soon as possible, so as to get away from Pipex. You can argue the case about the cancellation period later.
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The so-called training period has limited significance, JK. However, what it does set in stone is the fault threshold rate, and in the future, unless your speed consistently drops below that figure, BT will not consider the line to have a fault.
In the first 10 days, therefore, ensure that you get the best possible sync speed by shutting down the router at night when you have finished computing, and powering up in the morning (when you will get the best sync speed). The actual line rate can be left to settle after the training period.
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Hi All.
I have read in a magazine about problems on ADSL Max lines that have a varying SNR margin causing intermitant sync losses.
This turns out in most cases to be caused, according to the magazine and on the internet, by routers using the AR7 chipset.
As most routers including mine use this chipset I would have thought that this problem would be more widely known.
Any of you come accross this?
I have SNR margin and sync loss problems, only though at peak internet usage times. Asked advice from IDNet they
said my problem is quite common for customers on Tiscali/Pipex network, and in most cases clears up on migration.
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Hi JK,
Rik will explain better, but I think the thing with the AR7 chipset is over-hyped, as plenty of people use them with no adverse effects. Obviously, though, we can't guarantee that there are no problems with your particular router.
The advice from IDNet is worth taking. They have had many, many customers who have come over from Pipex / Tiscali, and have experienced a much better service. Of course, there's no cast iron guarantee of how your line will behave when on MAX, and occasionally there are issues in the BT realm, which are beyond the control of IDNet, but they do have very good contacts within BT and can usually sort out most problems, if they arise.
If you refer to Rik's post earlier in the thread, this gives an indication of the speed you are likely to achieve on a MAX service. If in doubt, give IDNet another call and talk it through with them, as they would be more qualified to deal with the ifs, buts, and maybes. We can only advise here, on previous experiences. :)
Hi JK
Max is a rate-adaptive service, [in other words], it will try and go as fast as your line can support. The single most critical factor in that is your downstream attenuation, which for you is 39db. At that level, I'd expect you to be achieving a sync speed of 5-6000kbps. The other factor though is the quality of the line and its susceptibility to noise, and that's much harder to quantify. I sync at around 3500 on a 56db attenuation. My neighbours sync at between 512k and 2000k, the attenuation figures are similar within +/-2db.
Normally, BT give you a target noise margin of 6db, and run the line as fast as possible with the margin. In your case, it looks like the dynamic line management software has found your line unstable at that speed and so increased the target margin to 9db. That will cost you about 500k of sync speed.
A shielded ADSL cable (RJ11-RJ11) may help, but the reason I suggested borrowing another router is that different makes work better with different lines, with a possible speed difference of 1000kbps or so. It also eliminates any possible fault with the router.
As Simon has said, you shouldn't have to re-train with a like-for-like migration. There is no fixed-rate 4Mbps service though, the fastest fixed rate product is 2Mbps.
You're very welcome to join IDNetters, as is everyone, but I'll always try to answer any questions here. Obviously, though I spend most of my time over there.
HTH
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What Simon said, JK. There may be an issue with noise, but until we remove the Tiscali overlay from the peak time problems, it's hard to know.
If you are seeing your noise margin drop below zero during the evening, and re-syncs follow that, then it's more likely to be local rather than network.
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Hi All
Though I better tell you that I have ordered the IDNet service today.
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Nice one, JK, let us know how it all goes. :)
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Simon and Rik
Though I better report back to you now that I am on IDNet.
Been on IDNet for two days, no ADSL max training at all. Followed Rik's advice turning off at bedtime.
Sync up each day at a high rate, today 5920 , this stays as the rate all day till I log off. My actual internet connection appears to be fixed at 2M.
I thought that Pipex may have placed me onto the ADSL Max equipment but I think that BT had. They have transferred all customers onto it. I was on a upto 2M line, hence my fixed rate. It appears that I have already been through the 10 day period with Pipex ( with the 2M cap). Hence the frequent re sync's then.
I do not know what to do, I am quite happy at having 2M connection as I have heard of horror stories on the net of people with 5M lines ending up with 256K. Any advice would be appricated.
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Today
UP DOWN
SNR margin 24 9
Connection 448 5920
Speed test.
373 1912
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It might take a little perseverance, but can you try to do a speed test at http://test.speedtester.bt.com:50301/, JK, and copy the results here? It's possibly that you may have a 'stuck profile', which means that your connection speed would be stuck at 2Mbps. This often clears by itself after 3-5 days. As you have only been on IDNet for a couple of days, I would suggest you leave it until the middle of next week, and if things don't improve, give IDNet a call and they can sort things with BT for you.
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Simon
The results are:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
IP profile for your line is - 2000 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 4768 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1855 kbps
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Your throughput is OK for your profile, but both should improve over the next few days. If not, give IDNet a call, JK. :)
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Contact support, JK, get them to reset your profile. It won't be an issue, if your sync is stable nothing will change but your throughput.
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Would they do it immediately, Rik, given that JK only migrated three days ago?
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I suspect this was an imposed profile, rather than a stuck one, Simon. By the time JK can make contact, five days will have passed, so if it's still there it's time to kick the tyres.
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Hi All
After having a good think about the situation I would be prepaired to have a fixed 2M service, its miles better than going down to
256K through put with Pipex. I have seen horror stories on the internet with people keep getting stuck with very low profile speeds after
interference on the line. My SNR margin is rock steady during the day and plunges at night. Sometimes by upto 10. I sync up each morning just short of 6M. If I leave the router on and check the line stat's after dark, my connection has resynced at a much, much lower rate.
So far with IDNet my through put is a constant 2M with no ADSL Max line training resync's at all. I thought I had a line problem when I kept getting resyncs with pipex, now I am sure it was the 10 day ADSL Max period.
I cannot see the point is chasing very high speeds if you are happy with 2M constantly.
You views would be appricated.
::)
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the question is do you really need the 6M? or are you happy with the nice constant 2M?
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It depends on all the factors, and whether your line will actually support speeds above 2Mb, JK. It maybe that BT need to do some tweaking, in order that you can enjoy better speeds, but this is really best talked over with IDNet now, as they are the ones who can work with BT for you. It's possible that you may have had a 'stuck profile' all along with Pipex, and IDNet may be able to help with that, by resetting your profile. Give them a call, you may find it very worthwhile.
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Simon I think that I have a 2M profile because BT have moved all internet users onto ADSL Max equipment.
Although I had a 1M service with Pipex I always synced up at a 2M line rate. Then one day I noted that I was synced up at 5.7M.
With my move from Pipex to IDNet, all BT have done is to do some software cross connection changes on the ATM network to move me over to IDNet.
The question you ask is am I happy with 2M then the answer is yes. I could chase the 6M and end up with 166K for several days.
I have downloaded from a P2P site at 150Kbps with IDNet with Pipex less than 50 during the day and at 2 during the busy periods
There are stories out there of people ending up 256K with ADSL Max, after they moved from a fixed 2M service.
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If you move from a fixed rate, to an adaptable rate, and find it unstable, IDNet can always 'fix' you again, so that's not too much of a worry. It just seems a shame that all the signs are there that you should be getting a higher speed, and it might just be that your profile needs resetting. As I said, talk to IDNet about it tomorrow, as they can do some tests on your line, and they will advise you of the best option. :)
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Simon
Just done the Bt speed test again and this is the result.
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
IP profile for your line is - 4000 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 4800 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3728 kbps
Somethings happen since Friday.
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Ah, so it looks like your profile is recovering, or the line training has kicked in. See how it goes over the next couple of days. Your throughput is correct for your profile, so it looks like you have a nice stable connection. :)
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Update
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
IP profile for your line is - 5000 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 5344 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4396 kbps
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:woo: Looking great, JK, and is it nice and stable? This just goes to show that Pipex were bullsh*tting you all along. ':|
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Update
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
IP profile for your line is - 5000 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 5344 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4396 kbps
Your profile is higher than it should be, so you've probably had a re-sync at a lower speed and the profile hasn't yet moved down accordingly.
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Thanks Rik
I have been following your advice of turning on when I get up and turning off at bedtime.
Does the line always try and sync up at the highest possible speed, for example today it was just short of 6M.
As you are an IDNet expert can you answer some questions as they are closed for the weekend. The question being monthly usage.
I know that the usage runs from the 1st of the month to the end of that month. Do they carry over any unused allowance, or do you start again.They told when when I joined halfway through the month that I had the full amount to use till the end of April.
My first day with them was last Friday, has my all my profiles been fixed yet? :)
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Rik the latest is:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
IP profile for your line is - 5000 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 5920 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4484 kbps
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Rik may not be about till the morning, JK, but I'll try to help.
The usage runs from 1st of each month, and does not carry over to the following month. If you join halfway through a month, you have the full allowance to use until the end of the month, then it will be reset again on the 1st.
As you seem to be getting good speeds now, personally, I wouldn't bother switching on and off, but if you do, you stand a better chance of getting a higher sync in the mornings. Rik will confirm the technical reason for that, but I believe it's because, generally, mornings are quieter on the Internet than evenings.
As I understand it, your profile on MAX is never actually 'fixed', as it can fluctuate according to line conditions, but if you have a stable connection, and your profile appears to be remaining steady, then you can probably assume that all is well.
Your throughput is slightly low for your profile, but that could just be due to traffic on the BT networks. try it again in the morning, if you're at all concerned, but other than that, just enjoy your connection! :)
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What Simon said, JK. :thumbs:
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Thanks Rik and Simon
I have noticed a change in my line stats.
The down attuation has always been steady at 39 today I note that this has changed to 40. Is that normal. I thought that the line attn would remain constant
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I wouldn't know about that, JK, but Rik will probably let you know in the morning.
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Thanks Rik and Simon
I have noticed a change in my line stats.
The down attuation has always been steady at 39 today I note that this has changed to 40. Is that normal. I thought that the line attn would remain constant
Attenuation is affected by a number of factors, JK, the accuracy of the router's reporting mechanism, the condition of the line and the speed at which you synchronise. A 1db change is not significant, but keep an eye on it. Lines are degrading, and BT are doing a massive amount of work on the network at the moment, so this can also affect the figure.
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Rik
Wished I had not sent the message as its now back upto 39.
Thank you.
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Hi Rik and Simon
Thank you for introducing me to IDNet.
The best ISP that I have had. The best advice I have received from PC pals.
:thumbs:
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Glad that the destination was worth the journey, JK! :D
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We tend to be a happy bunch at IDNet. :)
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hmm, when I move house I might have to have some thoughts...
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You'd be very welcome, Sam, and you'll have got an idea of the service from the new hosting (it does seem nippier to me).
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does, doesn't .. but then again my virgin connection has been so slow recently hard to tell the difference. I guess with Idnet you just need a BT line?
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That's it. :)
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damn, BT... if it has the term British in it, then its probably s**te.
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British Rail
British Leyland
British made :)
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British Airways ;D