PC Pals Forum
Technical Help & Discussion => Broadband, Networking, PC Security, Internet & ISPs => Topic started by: Clive on November 21, 2008, 17:55
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Another question for Rik methinks. I've recently been suffering slow speeds and BT have even dug cables up in my street. They found that two cables were touching each other but rectifying that fault made no difference at all. They then said that they would get the exchange to increase my line speed which is what I asked for in the first place! They did this but again that made no difference. Next they told me that they had to reprofile my line and within hours my speed increased tenfold. However, after a feedback call a couple of hours ago the speed is already getting much slower and has collapsed to just 1 meg. What is going on? :dunno:
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Rik, as you say, will explain it, Clive, but you can get your profile by performing a BT Speedtest (http://test.speedtester.bt.com). It may require some perseverance to get it to work, but unfortunately, this is the only line tester that will reveal your profile.
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Is your router dropping the connection at intervals, Clive?
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It was when the problem first began when I returned from London. But after my first phone call to BT the router stayed connected. Coincidence? Thanks for the link Simon. I will try it out. 8-)
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These are my results:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 4000 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3127 kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.
Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.
The ISPReview speedtester claims it is 2778 kbps which is slightly slower. However a retest shows that the speed varies considerably.
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Right, I don't really know what I'm talking about, Clive, but to echo what I've heard before, your throughput seems a little low for the profile, but not dramatically so, and to be honest, that speed is not too bad really. Rik won't be here now till the morning, but I think the next thing he would ask for is your router stats, which should give an indication of what your speeds should be.
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Router says:
Broadband connection details:
Downstream 4,000 Kbps
Upstream 448 Kbps
Connection time 1 day, 20:37:00
Data transmitted 42.40 MB
Data received 189.13 MB
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There should be more stuff, like SNR margins, attenuation, etc. That's the meat for the two veg! ;)
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I don't know where to find that information Simon. :dunno:
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Clive like you? this last week I have suffered below par performances with BT broadband ???
Dear Mr.*******,
Thank you for your e-mail dated 14th November '08. It has been logged under the reference number VOL011-14********.
I am sorry to learn from your email, you are experiencing an issue with the slow broadband speed. I apologise for the inconvenience caused as this is an ongoing issue. I understand the importance of the stable broadband connection.
However, I would like to inform you that I have checked the previous records and interactions which states that your case has been escalated to the higher level of department for advanced troubleshooting. They are dealing with the issue at present. They will contact you very soon.
That was from Mr Sing :laugh:
I have logged my line speeds with ADSL Thinkbroadband for 2 years :o:
Graph below:
(https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv489%2Fhook7%2Fspeedgraph.png&hash=71d618bfd2cee11cea3993372d0ee21510a38339)
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I don't know where to find that information Simon. :dunno:
Not sure what router you have, Clive, but it's probably time to hand over to Rik anyway. ;D
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That graph says it all Terry! My speed has rarely been anywhere near as high as yours but I'm quite happy with 3 - 4 Mb. I'm now back up to 3.3Mb so I will see how long that lasts. I use a relatively new Home Hub Simon.
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I've found the information Rik might need Simon.
DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 1 day, 22:48:25
Modulation: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 4,000
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 47.68 / 229.63
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 19.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 25.0 / 41.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 24.0 / 15.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ALCB
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 3,675
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 25
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 24
Line Profile: Interleaved
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That would be it, Clive. Let's see what he makes of it. :)
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I notice that you have a rather high Line Attenuation and SN Margin Clive, so I assume that you are quite a way from your exchange.
Maybe you wont get much better than you get now without getting an unstable connection.
These are my router stats, just had to reboot it so not connected long.
Uptime: 0 days, 0:14:36
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,395 / 16,579
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 2.33 / 1.85
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 18.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 15.5 / 29.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 4.0 / 3.5
Have you tried a "Quiet Line Test" ?
Unscrew the 2 screws from the lower part of the master phone socket and plug a standard analogue, wired phone directly into the socket that is now exposed.
Dial 17070 and press the number for the quiet line test when asked. I think its option 2.
You should hear a perfectly silent line without any clicks or crackles. All you should hear is the automated voice saying Quet Line Test every so often. Any other noise and there is a fault on the line between your master socket and the exchange, which will cause you to lose speed and possibly cause disconnections.
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Thanks very much for that Sandra. I will definitely give that a try.
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Hi Clive
For your attenuation, you should be syncing at a much higher speed. However, your target noise margin appears to have been raised from 6db to 15db. This is done by the line management software when it thinks the line is unstable, lots of disconnections, and each 3db step lowers sync speed by 5-700k, so you've lost about 2000k from what your line should be able to support.
This may just be a characteristic of your line - overhead lines in particular are susceptible to noise pick up, and this can trigger the re-syncs. However, if you can maintain a constant sync for 14+ days, then the target noise margin should reduce by 3db, and repeat the process until it reaches 6db again, or the line becomes unstable.
As Sandra says, connecting at the test socket will eliminate any local issues (if you have any extensions), and as Simon says your throughput is a little low for the profile, but not unduly so. If it's any consolation, I live in a town and have worse stats and a slower connection. :( Don't worry about testers giving different results at different times, there is a number of factors which affect the results, as all testers 'cheat' to produce a figure, and a small change in speed will usually be amplified as a result. The only one which really matters is the BT one.
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Thanks very much for all that info Rik.
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NP. :) If the stats improve at the test socket, then there's a little trick you can do to improve things, often dramatically.
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I'm going to have to borrow a wired phone to carry out this test. All my phones are wireless!
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Just plug the base unit into the test socket, Clive. I'm more interested, though, in what the router stats are like there.
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OK, I've borrowed a wired phone (sorry Rik I didn't see your last post) and unscrewed the cover of the ADSL socket to reveal a hidden phone socket. Plugging the phone in and dialing the number Sandra provided invoked the quiet line test which appears to be fine. However, the router goes dead (well not the power) when the cover is removed and there is nowhere to plug it in inside.
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You need to use a microfilter at the test socket, Clive. :)
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My ADSL socket has an inbuilt microfilter so I have never had to use those dangly things that come with routers.
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I can always send you one, Clive.
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I've got a spare one too, or could you perhaps borrow one from a neighbour, Clive?
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I'm sure I don't need one Rik. I have a BT ADSL v1.0 box which was installed by BT. It has a phone socket and a separate router socket.
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Is that at the master socket, Clive?
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Oh I probably have some lurking in at the back of drawers myself. :D
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I think so Rik. But I'm really not certain.
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Oh I probably have some lurking in at the back of drawers myself. :D
It depends on how much you hoard. I have four routers, three in the stock cupboard, plus a USB modem for use in extremis which means I have about a dozen filters in all. :)
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I think so Rik. But I'm really not certain.
Is this the same socket where you've done the quiet line test?
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Yes it is Rik. It was installed by a BT engineer so I presume it must be the master socket?
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It will be, Clive. Do you have any other wired extensions and, if so, are they disconnected when you remove the faceplate? If the answers are either no or yes, in that order, then there's no need to try the router in the test socket.
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Oh that's interesting. Yes, I have 3 additional extension phones and none of them work when the faceplate is removed. I guess that proves the ADSL box is the master socket!
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It also proves it's been wired wrongly, Clive. The extension should connect to the face plate and be disconnected when you remove it. If possible, therefore, can your connect to the test socket with a soap on a rope filter and see how your line stats change, if at all.
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But the extensions are disconnected when I remove the face plate Rik. Off to see Voulez Vous Abba Tribute Band right now! ;D
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I must learn to read and comprehend. :blush:
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But the extensions are disconnected when I remove the face plate Rik.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one to be confused there! ;D
Off to see Voulez Vous Abba Tribute Band right now! ;D
Have a super trouper time, Clive! :thumb:
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Enjoy it Clive and dont forget to thank them for the music.........for giving it to meeeeeeeeeee ;D
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:hee-hee: It was their farewell tour and they were pretty good. Of course nobody does Abba quite like Abba but I love the music. :D
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I've heard Abba weren't very good live but I never had a chance to find out for myself :( . There's a tribute band called Bjorn Again which is fairly well known and does put on a good act. Ironically, they've already been around about twice as long as Abba.
Oh, and talking of tribute bands, if you like Blondie, check out a little known group called Into The Bleach.
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The other Abba tribute band I've seen was Abba Gold who were quite mediocre. Thanks for the Bleach tip. I will look out for them.
BB speeds now more consistent Rik. But I will continue to monitor them.
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Just as I was feeling right at home with the diversion. ;D
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Another one for Rik methinks:
BT Speedtest results:
Your DSL connection rate: 4128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 750 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 698 kbps
But what do they mean? :dunno: The ISP Review test claims I'm getting 680 Kbs
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My limited knowledge tells me that your profile is screwed, Clive. This could be as a result of frequent disconnections, or instability of the connection, or of noise or other problems on the line. Basically, it's the BT software determining how fast your connection can go, while remaining stable. To drop from your previous profile, which wasn't too bad, to this, indicates a fairly major issue somewhere, but as you say, Rik is the best one to talk to.
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Thanks Simon. The BT engineer called out yesterday armed with a laptop which he connnected straight into my BB socket and claimed that he could get 4.7 Mb without any problem. So he was lying through his teeth! >:(
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Unless there's a problem with your computer? :dunno: Have you tried rebooting the router?
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Another one for Rik methinks:
BT Speedtest results:
Your DSL connection rate: 4128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 750 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 698 kbps
But what do they mean? :dunno: The ISP Review test claims I'm getting 680 Kbs
It means that your line has been unstable, disconnecting repeatedly, Clive, and at some point it re-connected in the 864-1151kbps range. If you can maintain your current connection, the profile will increase to 3500kbps sometime in the next five days. Throughput is about right for the profile you have.
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Thanks Simon. The BT engineer called out yesterday armed with a laptop which he connnected straight into my BB socket and claimed that he could get 4.7 Mb without any problem. So he was lying through his teeth! >:(
Not necessarily. I've seen a 1000kbps gain in speed just by changing router. He will have used a laptop and USB modem, so no noisy power bricks, which are often an issue.
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Thanks Rik. I have to say that I haven't noticed any disconnections during this present troublesome period. The last time the BT engineer called with his laptop and claimed astonishing speeds compared to mine, the problem was rectified at the exchange the very next day.
Spookily, the fault has one again been rectified within 24 hours and my latest results are as follows:
Your DSL connection rate: 4128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3293 kbps
No doubt it will collapse again next week. :(
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I suspect the engineer has reset the profile having tested. Does your router log disconnections, Clive?
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I've just had a phone call from India to ask for a progress report. I was told that a 'lift and shift' has been carried out and the problem is now solved. During his testing of the line my phone and BB became disconnected and my speed has now dropped to 2.7 Mb. :dunno:
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A lift and shift would be followed by a re-set of the profile, Clive, so that makes sense. If the line was disconnected at this time of day, chances are that noise levels are high, so you'd get a slower sync speed. Try a re-boot in the morning.
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That would be a reboot of the router, Rik, yes?
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Thanks very much Rik. :)
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Yes, sorry, re-boot the router (make a note of your stats immediately after doing so).
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I've checked the Hub stats but there doesn't appear to be a disconnection log. Interestingly there is a very comprehensive intrusion log which thankfully records zero for all types of intrusions. What exactly is a 'lift and shift' Rik? :dunno:
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I wonder if it's similar to a 'nip and tuck'? ;)
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;D
After a re-boot, my stats today are:
Your DSL connection rate: 3776 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2886 kbps
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Oh wow! Your profile has definitely shot up, but your throughput should be closer to it. Over to Rik! ;D
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Well, that profile is soon going to be replaced by a 3000kbps one, Clive. :(
A lift and shift is where the wiring for your ADSL connection is physically moved to a new port or card inside the exchange. It's supposed to eliminate the possibilities of hardware issues at the exchange end.
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Thanks for the explanation. I will continue to monitor the situation!
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Good luck.
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Well, that profile is soon going to be replaced by a 3000kbps one, Clive. :(
So, why is it showing the higher profile now, Rik? If it can reach 6500kbps once, why not all the time?
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My speed is starting to collapse aready! :bawl:
Your DSL connection rate: 2944 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2434 kbps
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NOW look what they've done to me!
Your DSL connection rate: 2944 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2333 kbps
:rant:
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your screwed clive... by Christmas you should get out the old 56K modem.. it will be faster.
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So, why is it showing the higher profile now, Rik? If it can reach 6500kbps once, why not all the time?
The line has re-synced at a lower speed. It suggests noise vulnerability to me.
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NOW look what they've done to me!
Your DSL connection rate: 2944 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2333 kbps
:rant:
Your line is unstable and the sync speed is dropping, Clive. Have you checked the downstream noise margin?
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I will bare all Rik: ;D The rest of you should avert their eyes. :o:
Link Information
Uptime: 1 day, 1:01:01
Modulation: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 2,944
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 13.05 / 114.31
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 18.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 25.0 / 41.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 24.0 / 17.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ALCB
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 235 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 690 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1,128
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 14
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 11
Line Profile: Interleaved
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It looks like your line has now got a 15db target noise, margin, Clive, which will knock 2000kbps off your speed. Interleaving is on, so that will reduce throughput a bit more. I can only conclude that the line is subject to severe noise bursts (the margin has risen since you last synced, so it was noisier at that time).
There's probably not a lot you'll get BT to do about it. With another ISP, you might stand more chance, but not necessarily a lot. :(
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I'm now under 2 Meg so the good times are already over. :bawl:
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I can't remember, Clive, sorry, have we done the router at test socket bit?
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Yes, we did. What exactly is interleaving? :dunno:
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The data is broken up and sent out of sequence, so that if a piece of it needs to be re-transmitted, less data is needed for the resend. Though it puts a processing overhead on all transmissions, overall it tends to improve performance on bad lines, though it does lead to an increase in ping times (latency).
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I had no idea it was so complicated! No wonder BT haven't a clue how to operate an ISP.
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Ah, but IDNet do. ;)
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Couldn't have put it better myself, Simon. :)
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We'll get him one day, Rik. ;)
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We'll go for a pincer movement.
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But I can't see how switching to a different ISP can solve the problem. :dunno:
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It might not. but IDNet can sometimes get more 'help' from BT, than a mere customer can. They know which buttons to push. ;)
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And which people. ;)
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I am going to have to consider it!
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There are times when a 'personal' ISP can get results while a 'box shifter' isn't interested, Clive. There are also times when the line is giving as good as it can, and no-one can get BT to do anything. Worth exploring what a company like IDNet might achieve though...
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I've had a word about your problem with Simon Davies, Clive, the MD at IDNet, and he's read through this thread.
While he'd be delighted to have your custom, he'd be reluctant to promise you that they could effect any improvements. Clearly, there appears to be a source of noise somewhere along your line and tracking it would be difficult. Having found it, a cure might be impossible. He told me of one case they had recently where the BT line ran over a water treatment plant. Which was fine until the water company decided to put in a new pump right under the phone lines. All the ADSL lines affected suffered a massive drop in speed due to electrical noise from the pump. The water company wouldn't move the pump and BT wouldn't move the cables. :(
Sadly, until BT are obliged to provide ADSL, this sort of thing will continue to happen.
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Thanks for trying so hard Rik. I will continue to harrass BT whenever my speed falls below 2Mb which I consider is the minimum acceptable. Sadly BT thinks anything better than 1 Meg fulfills their contract to me. >:(
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How long have you got to go, Clive?
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I think it's July Simon.
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You could try asking BT to put you on a fixed 2Mbps service, Clive. That would be more reliable.
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That would be a touch ironic, as Clive was one of the first people here to get a 2Mb service!
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Well, if Clive is like me, reliability is more important than absolute speed...
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These past two days I've consistently achieved 2.3Mb but I'm still paying for "up to 8 Meg". I'm not a downloader so anything over 2Mb is acceptable but still galling since, as Simon says, I've gone backwards by several years!
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The problem is that 'up to' means what it says, Clive, and BT are not obliged to provide ADSL at all, so it's always an uphill struggle getting these kind of issues resolved. To an extent, you can see it from BT's point of view. The cure in your case would probably cost £10,000+. You'd have to spend a lot with them to justify that.
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Yes, I know it's a bone of contention with many customers. :(
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We need the monopoly broken up. :(
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Yesterday I obtained 3.3 Mb. Today the BT test shows:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 736 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 436 kbps
Does this mean they've changed my line proifile again? :bawl:
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Got any Christmas lights up?
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Yes, the profile has changed, Clive, it reflects your current sync speed. As Simon says, Xmas lights can play havoc with ADSL.
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Got any Christmas lights up?
As Simon says, Xmas lights can play havoc with ADSL.
Oh come on you two! This is supposed to be a serious forum! The lights have been up for 10 days and I was getting over 3 meg yesterday! ::)
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Apparently they can cause electical noise, Clive, but Rik will have to explain it! ;)
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Yes, I know it's a bone of contention with many customers. :(
it's not the bone that matters more the ratios , I'd say Clive. :)x
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Apparently they can cause electical noise, Clive, but Rik will have to explain it! ;)
It's nothing to do with politics, Simon. ;D
If the lights are flashing or chasing types, Clive, the control gear, which is made for about 10p in China usually, often is very electrically noisy. It's worth noting that it doesn't have to be your own lights, those of a neighbour can be just as bad.
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After phoning the very apologetic man in India and insisting that it's a problem at the exchange - my latest results:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 5120 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 4500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4236 kbps
I am convinced that there is foul play afoot within the exchange and someone else is getting my bandwidth. I have a BT engineer living opposite who uses BT Vision and I know he has access to the exchange. Is it possible that he is boosting his connection at my expense?
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No, in a word. The variations in your sync speed are more to do with the quality of the line between the exchange and you. If you know the guy well, why not have a word with him and see if he has any thoughts.
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That's a brilliant idea, Rik! :thumb:
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I might do that. :)
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going back to the cheap electronics - I think there is something to be said about the noise from the lights - you'd be surprised what pumps out confusing signals (its a pain when you are a radio astronomer!)
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Sky boxes are pretty bad too, Sam.
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I have 4 sets of tree lights and a sky box turned on and my speed today is 4.3Mb. 8-) I therefore denounce your heretical theories! ;D
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It all depends... ;D