PC Pals Forum

Technical Help & Discussion => Broadband, Networking, PC Security, Internet & ISPs => Topic started by: Clive on May 08, 2010, 16:00

Title: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on May 08, 2010, 16:00
Several times during the past few days I have failed to get a BB connection despite all the router lights claiming that all is well. It affects all computers and all browsers.  If I pull out the router plug for a minute or so (just switching off  is not good enough) then my connection is restored.  I'm using the Netgear router.   ???
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on May 08, 2010, 16:04
Two possibilities, Clive. A stale session, where BT thinks you are connected but you're not, and a fritzed router. Have you got a spare you can try?
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on May 08, 2010, 16:08
I haven't but this router is still under warranty.  What sort of track record do these routers have? 
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on May 08, 2010, 16:10
What is a stale session?  The problem only occurs after startup.  Usually both router and computer are booted up at the same time but I then leave the router on until bedtime.  Today I had turned the computer off for a few hours while I was out. 
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Simon on May 08, 2010, 16:16
I think a stale session is where the BT software thinks you are still connected, so won't allow you to connect again, Clive.  I think powering off the router for a given period (which Rik will give ;D ) usually solves this.

Is this the router supplied by IDNet?
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on May 08, 2010, 16:20
Netgear's are generally reliable, Clive, but can be easily damaged by power surges or thunderstorms - the same is true for all routers.

A stale session is when the router is in sync, but can't create a PPP session because BT thinks that one already exists. The usual cure is to power off the router for 15-30 minutes. I can't ask support to look at what's happened at the weekend, but will do on Monday if the problem persists. Don't boot the router and computer at the same time, either leave the router on 24/7 or power it up and let it connect before you start the computer. Doing them simultaneously can result in the router being interrogated by Windows, and not being ready to respond.
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on May 08, 2010, 16:25
Yes, it's the one IDNet supplied.  I've been using the router since mid January and it's only during the past week I have had this problem.  Surely I would have had stale sessions from the outset?  And also, this is the 5th router I have owned (1 x Draytek and 3 x BT Home Hubs.)  Why did it not happen with any of those?   :dunno:
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on May 08, 2010, 16:29
Quote
Don't boot the router and computer at the same time, either leave the router on 24/7 or power it up and let it connect before you start the computer. Doing them simultaneously can result in the router being interrogated by Windows, and not being ready to respond.

OK, I'll take that in board.  Turning the router off each night has proved very successful at keeping a fast connection so I am loathe to stop that habit.  But I can always boot up the computer a few minutes later.  Thanks for the advice!   8-)
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on May 08, 2010, 16:31
I can't give you a simple answer, Clive, until I've got access to support - and maybe not even then. Try booting the router before the computer, then if you still don't have a connection, go into the router log and see what that says.
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on May 08, 2010, 16:36
It's happened 4 times since Monday which is why I've flagged it up.  Once the connection is lost it won't return without a "plug -out" .   :D
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Simon on May 08, 2010, 16:37
Your line does seem something of an anomaly, Clive.   :-\
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on May 08, 2010, 16:41
<nods head knowingly>  ;D
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on May 08, 2010, 16:51
It's happened 4 times since Monday which is why I've flagged it up.  Once the connection is lost it won't return without a "plug -out" .   :D

Telephone socket or mains?
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on May 08, 2010, 17:05
Oh mains only Rik. 
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on May 08, 2010, 17:16
A power recycle of short duration would make me suspect poor quality mains supply to the router, Clive.
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on May 08, 2010, 17:45
I can plug it into a Belkin Surgemaster socket which should take care of that Rik.  I have a spare one for sure.    8-)
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on May 08, 2010, 18:10
That won't necessarily help, Clive, surge suppressors often make things worse, but it's worth a try.
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on May 09, 2010, 10:55
I had the same problem this morning and it took a great deal of effort to get a connection established.  However, it may be nothing at all to do with the router!  My PC is connected by a USB wireless adaptor and I now remember that my son, who has a similar device often has to reseat the device to get a connection.  I have had to do that myself when using his computer.  Next time it happens I shall try that first.  The laptop may not have connected  because it might well have been out of range at the time owing to repositioning of the router just before I went to London. 
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Simon on May 09, 2010, 11:06
So, the (desktop?) PC is using a USB dongle, Clive?  If so, you might be better off getting a proper internal wireless network card installed.  My friend had one of those USB adaptors, and also had trouble with it after a few months of use.  He now has a wireless network card, and no connection issues.  They are cheap to buy, and easy to install.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/MBPS-Wireless-Adapter-Card-802-11G/dp/B002OEGWIO/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1273399441&sr=8-7

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Edimax-EW-7128G-Wireless-802-11b-Ralink/dp/B000KLNRBS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1273399441&sr=8-1
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on May 09, 2010, 11:29
I'll second that.
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on May 09, 2010, 13:32
Well it's certainly something I shall have to consider if the problem persists.  That is not much more than I paid for the dongle! 
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Simon on May 09, 2010, 13:57
I'm sure it would be worthwhile, Clive. 
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on May 09, 2010, 16:21
I concur.
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Simon on May 09, 2010, 16:32
That's twice in one day!   ;D
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on May 09, 2010, 16:36
Worrying, isn't it.  ;D
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Simon on May 09, 2010, 17:50
Almost frightening.  ;D
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on June 03, 2010, 15:45
So I have followed my strict regime of unplugging the router overnight and booting it back up again before switching my computer on.  For nearly a month, all has been well.  This morning, despite my best efforts, the wireless light was glowing on the router but I could not get a connection using my dongle.  I tried the laptop which was well within range and still zilch.  In desperation I used an ethernet cable and all was well.  This afternoon I had a little more time to fiddle around so I tried the laptop again and Windows 7 claimed I had an excellent signal from the Netgear.  But it said there was no connection and offered to troubleshoot the problem and sort it out for me.  I thought it wise to take up the very generous offer which eventually entailed rebooting the router.  I was highly skeptical by this time because I had already rebooted it several times during the morning.  My skepticism was well founded because still there was no connection.  Howeever, it then said Windows 7 had detected another fault, and would I like it fixed?  "Of course" I shouted and off it went again on a troubleshootting spree.  "Problem, solved, would you like to connect to the internet now?" "Yes".  And behold- it worked!  Very excited by now I tore the ethernet cable from my PC and imagine my surprise to find that my dongle had sprang back to life again!  I have no idea what the problem was or what Win 7 did to solve it.
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on June 03, 2010, 15:52
Sounds like a driver issue, Clive.
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on June 03, 2010, 17:01
With the Netgear? 
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on June 03, 2010, 17:05
With the wireless adaptors, Clive.
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on June 03, 2010, 17:17
The laptop has wireless inbuilt but the dongle grabbed a driver from the internet.  Surely they can't be the same driver for both devices?  Stand by for another thrilling installment.  ;D
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Simon on June 03, 2010, 17:30
Can't wait!  ;D
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on June 03, 2010, 17:41
What details do you get for the two devices, Clive.
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on June 03, 2010, 22:10
D..d..d..details?  Whadyamean?   :dunno:
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on June 04, 2010, 09:54
How does device manager identify them?
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on June 04, 2010, 10:44
The dongle is identified by Device Manager as a network adaptor IS89C35 802.11bg WLAN USB Adaptor.  All was well this morning.   8-)
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on June 04, 2010, 10:59
How about the laptop?
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on June 04, 2010, 11:47
It's a Realtek PCLe  GBE family Controller.  Listed as Network Adaptor. 
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on June 04, 2010, 11:49
So no common link, ie drivers. I really don't know how to explain what happened then, Clive.
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on June 04, 2010, 11:51
All I can say is well done Windows 7.   :laugh:
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on June 04, 2010, 11:54
Not next Tuesday you won't.  :devil:
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on June 04, 2010, 12:03
Patch Tuesday?  It downloaded a patch yesterday.  I really should disable automatic updates on that machine. 
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on June 04, 2010, 12:04
Ten to come next week, Clive.
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on June 04, 2010, 12:09
 :bawl:  What could possibly go wrong?  I definitely need to turn off auto updates!
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on June 04, 2010, 12:13
Let me put it this way. Before I allow an update, I image the OS drive in case it causes problems. :)
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Simon on June 04, 2010, 14:00
Paranoid?  Who said that?  ;D
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on June 04, 2010, 15:54
Clive, repeatedly.  ;D
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Simon on June 04, 2010, 15:57
Pardon?
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on June 04, 2010, 16:02
 ;D
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on June 04, 2010, 17:55
That's a really good idea Rik. Which imaging software do you use?
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Rik on June 04, 2010, 17:55
Acronis True Image, Clive.
Title: Re: No Broadband
Post by: Clive on June 04, 2010, 18:28
Thanks Rik.