PC Pals Forum
Technical Help & Discussion => Broadband, Networking, PC Security, Internet & ISPs => Topic started by: daveeb on November 01, 2010, 10:39
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One for Rik maybe ;)
I got a home plug kit to allow my shiny new internet capable tv to get internet access in our equally shiny new conservatory (the other option was the dedicated Sony usb dongle which is a complete rip off). I decided to test the connection on my laptop first so installed the small monitoring program and plugged everything in. All i can get is "local" internet access. I dont seem to be able to connect to the primary DNS server, although it did manage to connect to the linksys routers site to check for anything obvious but everything looked normal. I tried turning off the firewall to no avail.
The laptop works fine with the router when connected with a conventional cable. The home plugs are connected directly into wall sockets on the same ring main. It looks like a DNS issue but i can't for the life of me think why it won't work. I thought these things literally needed no setup at all. :dunno:
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Hi Dave
They may, of course, be faulty. Failing that, as they seem to be communicating and have reached the web, DNS is the most obvious issue. Do you pick up the servers automatically or set them manually?
What make and model of plugs are you using?
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I've been asking around at the other place, Dave, and perhaps the following might help:
Normally just plug and go even without pairing, if he/she been playing with passwords/pairing suggest a reset to default and try again. I do get the occasional hassle with loss of internet connection but that usually is resolved by switching the home plug attached to the router on and off. It could of course be the laptop but it shouldn't be any different than a normal ethernet cable connection,could try setting DNS locally on the NIC. It might work ok on the TV
or:
http://www.homeplugs.co.uk/acatalog/faqs.html
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Hi Rik thanks for the links. I have DNS set to auto and i'd rather leave it like that as everything else is working. I did try putting the password in after i discovered they didnt work, but the password wasn't initially asked for and didn't make a jot of difference when i input it. The plugs in question are "max value 85 mbps" and i've already got some new ones coming from amazon. They're rather cheap so i guess i should have forseen some teething problems. If the replacements have the same problem i'll need to do a bit more head scratching.
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Another suggestion, Dave:
The important thing to determine is it IS a DNS issue or not. Simple pick your favourite website on an ethernet-connected PC and find out it's IP address (via traceroute or so on), then try and connect to this IP via a homeplug system. That will determine if you're getting outside access or not. If you aren't it could be some glitch with DHCP. Output of "ipconfig/all" is useful!
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Rik well i got a second homeplug kit and i have the same problem. I have also noticed that straight after the home plug has been connected the router stops connecting with the internet at all :bawl:
(which may explain why i can't access the internet but not why it's happening !)
i have to reboot the pc and router and disconnect the HP's and then the router works again.
The IP address on the pc is showing as 192.168.1.101 which apparently is the addy for the linksys router, is that how it should be ?
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No, your IP address should be part of the subnet, Dave.
Can you do a Start > Run > Cmd, then ipconfig /all, and cut and paste the results back here?
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Hi Rik
Windows IP Configuration
Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : xxxx
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : cable.virginmedia.net
Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : cable.virginmedia.net
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-19-66-7A-5D-F9
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 194.168.4.100
194.168.8.100
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 03 November 2010 18:00:38
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 04 November 2010 18:00:38
I'm guessing the router is set up wrong but it works other than with these plugs !!
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What make are the plugs, Dave?
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Max value 85 mbps. i can't believe that two sets don't work...
Is my router set up wrong then Rik ?
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I don't know, tbh, Dave. Let me ask around some more.
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PS - Was that ipconfig when the HP's weren't connected? Have you tried setting Windows to use OpenDNS rather than Virgin's DNS.
The fact that the plugs are taking down the connection makes me think they're faulty or simply not set up correctly, but it's not a brand I know.
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From a user of what appears to be a very similar unit, Dave:
I installed the Power Packet utility that came with them, and entered the passwords that are printed on each unit
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I'm not familiar with these at all, but I just wonder, do they have to be connected in any certain order, and could they be affected by any other appliances sharing the power point, or in the vicinity?
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I don't think the order they are connected makes any difference Simon.
Rik i haven't installed the power packet utility this time, it's for monitoring only it doesn't contain drivers (i did install it with the first set of plugs to no avail)
Yes the ipconfig was when the plugs weren't connected. should i see if it's the same when they are hooked up again ? they'll likely kill my connection again tho' so i'll need to reboot after.
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Latest thoughts, Dave:
These plugs seem to get a mixed review on Amazon they work or they don't, my other thought is that the mains is noisy and this is killing the connection might be worth looking at what else is connected in the rooms where the plugs are situated.
Yes you should see the same when they are hooked up, Dave.
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i chaps
I have tried them in individual power points although they are supposed to work on extensions albeit slower providing they aren't surge protected.
I'll install the software and run the passwords although it never asks for the password directly and they should work without any software intervention..
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I've just connected a vista laptop up, (the one it failed on initially) and it has now worked without killing the router. I have set it up on adjacent power points so how it will fare at distance remains to be seen. Cheers for the ideas tho' not convinced i've solved it yet :dunno:
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Rik will be back in the morning, but best of luck, Dave. I bet you thought this was supposed to be easy! ;)
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Another update, Dave:
The IP address on the pc is showing as 192.168.1.101 which apparently is the addy for the linksys router, is that how it should be ?
No no no no! Argh! You'll get an IP conflict on your default gateway. This is an issue I had a while ago when I moved my default gateway but the old one failed to be removed. Systems will then try and route through the most recent system that broadcast itself as that address. In this situation when the laptop connects with the same IP as the router all the PCs will be stuck and confused as all external packets will then try and route through the laptop and the laptop will be quite clueless too (hence it will appear the internet is down). You will be able to intermittently get to the router but with two systems on the same IP it's just going to be quite unpredictable (which is why it took me ages to figure it out). Try setting it to a fixed IP address if you want in the network configuration. Just use IP 192.168.1.200 (or other unused number up to 192.168.1.254) with netmask 255.255.255.0 and gateway to the router IP (x.101)... DNS either set to the router IP or type in the IDNet ones manually.
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Many thanks Rik, but what does this mean in practice. I haven't (knowingly) moved any default gateways, i just plugged in the router when i got it with the only setup being the security for the wireless. Do i have to go to the router home page and change some settings there ???
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one other thing, i'm fairly sure that until recently the IP addy on the main working pc off the router began 86.xxx.xxx., and now it's 192.xxx.xxx as per the routers own id. Clearly something has gone wrong. Is it as simple as assignig a slightly different IP within the range to each pc using the router. If so how does the homeplug fit into all this :crazy: I'm getting confused now :P
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You shouldn't have to alter anything on the router, Dave, but if they won't work any other way, then it may be worth assigning a fixed IP address to the plugs, if your router supports that.
You should never have seen an IP addy for one of your machines beginning with 86, generally, they will start with 192, the most commonly used of the private IP address ranges.
The homeplug is just another computer to the router, talking to the machine connected to its companion. Setting it up should be transparent, though the Amazon reviews on your model do seem a bit mixed. Unfortunately, I've never used plugs and the only brand I know a bit about is Devolo.
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Thanks Rik that has cleared things up a bit. I could well be wrong about the 86. xxx comment. Do you know how i assign a fixed IP to the home plugs ?? they don't show as a physical entity on the pc (other than in their own monitoring/security software which is very basic). Also should i go ahead and incrementally tweak the IP addy of each pc using the (wired) network.
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I'm afraid I don't know your router, Dave, so I'm not sure what tweaks are available to you. :( Do you have a friend or neighbour you could visit with the plugs, to see if they work in a different setup?
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I can try it myself Rik, as i have a second router running O2 adsl broadband on a different pc. I suspect now that it could be a DHCP problem, as if i understand it correctly each pc connected to the router should be automatically assigned a different IP address. Anyhow thanks for the input Rik. :thumbs:
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It should, Dave, and the router-connected plug should be seen as a PC.
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Could i ask one last favour Rik/Simon. Assuming you're connected via a router could you ipconfig /all on your main pc and tell me if your DNS ip setting is that of the routers default gateway or of the DNS servers for your isp.
reason i ask is that on the main pc attached to my linksys router the dns addresses specified on the pc are those of virgin media. On my pc attached to my O2 router the dns settings specified on the main pc are for the routers gateway. I've a feeling the latter is the correct setting. If so i'm trying to find a way to change the dns setting on my vm router pc to point the routers gateway. Hope that makes sense.
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It is, Dave. The gateway would not normally be the same as the DNS servers, but should be the same as the DHCP server.
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Rik i'm tearing my remaining follicles out here , i just had to reboot twice to get the router back.
All i did was connect a second pc to the router and all connection is lost. (cannot connect to DNS server).
DHCP DOES seem to be working in that successive connections are given an IP address of +1
I incorrectly said that the ip of the main pc was the same as the router.
The problem seems to be looking in the network properties for the pc and also the laptop the address for the prefered DNS servers
is listed as 192.168.4.100 and 192.168.8.100 (the addys for the VM DNS servers)
These details are also on the routers homepage for DNS settings.
I believe the pc's network settings for DNS servers SHOULD be pointing at the routers default gateway to allow the router to contact to he DNS server on behalf of the pc.
Or have i completely lost the plot :crazy: :blush:
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The router's default gateway should point to Virgin though, Dave.
Are all the computers running the same OS? Do the problems only occur if the homeplug is connected?
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No Rik i don't now think it's a home plug problem, i think they have just served to highlight the problem. I connected a laptop (not with the home plugs)with the host pc already connected and the connection failed, citing inability to connect to primary DNS server. If wireless was enabled on the laptop at the same time as it being connected via ethernet could that possibly cause a conflict giving rise to these problems ??
The host pc is on XP sp3 and the laptop is on vista (never updated in 2 years :blush:).
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If the laptop was connected via cable before booting, Dave, the cable connection would take precedent and you should get a 'limited or no connectivity' warning for wireless.
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If the laptop was connected via cable before booting, Dave, the cable connection would take precedent and you should get a 'limited or no connectivity' warning for wireless.
No it was connected afterwards Rik, the main desktop was booted first. I'm clutching at straws really as networking is a bit of a dark art to me :-\
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Connect the two machines by cable before powering up, Dave. Reboot the router and then power up the machines when the router has completed connecting, see what happens.