PC Pals Forum
Technical Help & Discussion => Self Building, Upgrading & General Hardware Help => Topic started by: Dack on August 10, 2003, 09:15
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http://www.savastore.com/include2/info7.asp?catalog%5Fname=Savastore&product%5Fid=10244352&pid=1
I just ordered one of these for my second machine so thought people might be interested as it's a very good price. Faster than the Geforce 5200s (though not DirectX 9 fully compliant)
Its the 64Meg version with DVI and TV out.
Only bad thing is savastore is a division of Watford electronics.
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Yeah, looks a good price for that card. I used to like Watford (Savastore), but the Maxtor 40Gb Hard Drive I just bought from them was duff. Not blaming them for that, but when I rang to organise a replacement, expecting them to send another immediately, I was told that they wouldn't send a replacement until they received the duff one back. This would have meant about a 4-5 day delay on my build, which I find unacceptable, so I told them they would have to refund me and I'd buy one elsewhere, which is what I did.
I find this with a lot of online retailers. Everything is great until something is wrong, then the wheels start falling off.
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Seems to be the policy of most retailers these days :( (The customer is trying to pull a fast one)
A local supplier I use usually allows you to take a replacement against a credit card (which will be processed if you don't return the faulty one inside 14 days). This is much like Maxtor with their drives on advanced RMA (which I had to do last week when a 20G failed) - I got the replacement inside 3 days and then used their packaging to return the faulty one.
I don't usually buy from Watford due to previous experience of their amazing customer service (now what smilie to use for Sarcasm)
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Well, I've ordered one, as it's about half the price I have seen those elsewhere. Just a little confused though, it says 64Mb support memory, but in the specs below, it says 128MB high-speed DDR RAM memory. Is is one or the other, both, or what? Don't fully understand graphics cards yet. Usually just go on price and recommendations.
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Its amazing how a good price over-rides reputation isn't it ;)
Its almost certainly the 64Meg version and looks like only 4x AGP but it's still a very good price and card.
I believe that Watford do very similar to Ebuyer in that they just act as middle men for a load of components companies - hence the Satellite warehouse mentioned on the order (when I last ordered from Watford I got the same invoice, courier etc as for a similar product I'd ordered from Ebuyer about a week earlier).
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Is it for you Simon, what are you going to do with your existing card, boy your fair doleing the dosh out this week ;)
All new graphics cards and Mobos on my shopping list in future will have to be 8xAGP's, pointless buying brand new obsolecence. Because if thats what you want,I suspect you will be able to can pick that up on Ebay for a tenner when the 'boy racers' upgrade their dualing machines. 8)
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Not meaning to sound superiour in my last post, now't wrong with buying something that fufills your needs, but not the latest technoligy.
I myself bought two brand new Matrox G450 multi graphics cards for my new PC last September. They were retailing at over £90 each anywere you looked. But because Matrox were due to launch their new P series cards, they no doubt instructed the big box sellers to dump brand new G450 series cards discounted prices, to shift the stock.
Consiquently I bought a brand new G450 AGP dual head for £30, and a G450 PCI dual head for £20.
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Actually, you're right Tony. I've just come back from cancelling the order. We're going to try out what my mate has already got (Radeon 7000), and if it doesn't suit his needs, we'll review things again, and possibly go for an 8x.
You see, the trouble is people say they just want a basic home machine for e-mail / internet / office etc, and they don't want to spend much more than £xxx, so that's what he's got. And I think the components for what he asked for are good. Then he happens to mention, "It will play Grand Turismo, won't it?", and this is what has got me a little concerned about the capabilities of the gphx card installed.
If we do swap it, I'm sure I can find a home for the other one, if not he will have to cough up, as you can't order a Ford Focus and expect it to perform like a McLaren F1. ::)
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A radeon 7000 is about the same speed as a Geforce 2 MX400 according to comparisons at
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20021218/vgacharts-02.html
You'll need a Radeon 8500 or better to beat the performance of the 4200.
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Will the 7000 play Grand Turismo, Dack?
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I didn't think Gran Turismo was available for the PC as its a bit of a PS2 flagship product.
just checked and can't see it anywhere - in fact the quote from http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/t-17224.html pretty much sums it up
Yep, Gran Turismo will never feature on the PC.
As said so by Kazunori Yamauchi himself.
You can play the PS-1 versions using an emulator though (but why bother as there are much better PC racing games)
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Hi Dack,
I love your sig, it's a cracker mate
They promised the earth! Then delivered mud.
Technically it did meet the spec
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I didn't think Gran Turismo was available for the PC as its a bit of a PS2 flagship product.
You can play the PS-1 versions using an emulator though (but why bother as there are much better PC racing games)
Yeah I just looked too, Dack. Shows how much I know about PC Games! :doh:
Can you recommend a "much better PC racing game"?
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Glad you like it - its something I said in a meeting a few months ago when some contractors delivered some software (that didn't work and was completely unusable on the ergonomics side). They were then bidding to do extra work to correct all the faults if we paid them ::)
As to better racing games on the PC - It depend on the type of game. There are rally games (Rally X was quite good, as was Colin McRaes, I liked V-Rally), grand prix games (more tweaking with the car type e.g. Geoff Crammonds Grand Prix 200x - whatever it is now), the Need For Speed series are probably the nearest to the Gran Turismo idea.
My favourite racing game is MSR on the Dreamcast (which became Project Gotham Racing on the X box)though I don't get time to play games much these days.
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OK, thanks Dack
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Back in February when i got Tiger woods 2003 and Rallisport challenge.. ;)..i found that my Radeon 7000 wasn't up to the job.. :-\..I could play Tiger woods with restricted graphics and couldn't play rallisport at all..... ::)
After a chat with Hitch and a squint about...i was going for the Radion 9000pro (the pro gives you transfer & lighting which you need for some of the latest games). ::)
Well surprisingly enough...Dabs came out triumphs. :o..and knowing how quick the deliver..i couldn't resist...Why not have a look your self....Here (http://www.dabs.com/products/prod-search.asp?action=search&tid=700&mid=010&ob=price&stab=ref)
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Thanks Cammy. :) Actually the GeForce 4 MX440-8x 128MB DDR AGP (http://www.dabs.com/products/prod-info.asp?quicklinx=2LGC) looks very tempting, at a fraction over £46.
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I got that one a couple of weeks back locally for £49 and its fine for what I need so far Simon.
Going to get a S-Vid lead tomorrow as I have a div x movie on PC that I cant get onto cd yet so I want to watch it from PC on my TV.
I wasnt bothered about having TV out but seeing as it has it I may as well use it,especially if theres nothing but football and soaps on the TV as it appears to be at the moment :(
Funnily enough it says its 128 DDR but on the box it says max avaliable memory is 64 so presumably its 2x 64 but why doesnt it say that ???
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Can someone explain what is 4x, 8x etc, and is it better to have, say, a 64Mb 8x gphx card, or a 128Mb 4x? Obviously the best is to have both, but I'd like to know what the differences are.
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Its the data transfer rate Simon so 8x is twice as fast as a 4x which is twice as fast as a 2x.
A lot of the time unles you have a really graphic intensive game running you probably wouldnt notice any difference :doggie:
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Bit of swings and roundabouts when it comes to graphics cards.
8x and 4x refer to the speed at which data can be transfered to the card. Unlike Ye Olde Days though this is not a simple indication of how fast a card is. Neither is the amount of memory on it.
Modern cards work using the idea of a GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) where it is the card itself that does all the neat things with the graphics data to produce the image - texture and lighting being one example. A faster AGP allows you to transfer the data to the GPU quicker while a larger memory means you can store more of it before needing to transfer again. This only starts to have an effect at higher resolutions (when more data needs to be transfered).
Usually an 8x card and a 4x card will have the same sort of performance figures as this will be mostly affected by the speed of the GPU in it. Any real differences will be down to the speed of the AGP bus while it transfers the data to the on card memory.
The link I provide earlier to Toms Hardware pretty much shows that. If you read the article through to the end and have a look at the second part (where it compares the same graphics cards on different speed processors) you'll see that the 64M 4x 4200 massivly outperforms the 128M 8x MX440. While a 128M 8x 4200 is pretty much the same as the 64M 4x 4200 (and only really starts beating it when the resolutions increase over 1200)
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Well, what it does show is that the cheapo Radeon 7000 I put in this new machine is the bottom of each list, and was obviously a mistake, which may well become apparent when games are played.
Although the MX-440 8x is no where near the top of the performance ratings, it does seem reasonably respectable for the price, and vastly out-performs the Radeon 7000.
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<<SIGH>> Received this e-mail from Watford, two days after canceling the order ::)
Thank you for your order placed with Savastore for the Geforce 4 Ti4200 64Mb DVI TV AGP Graphics OEM.
We regret to advise that due to a pricing error, we are unable to offer you the item at the original offer price and this offer has now been withdrawn. The price has thus increased to 54.00 plus vat and we will be pleased to accept your order at the new revised cost. (I bet you will!) In the interim your order has been held, kindly advise how you wish us to proceed.
Well, I kindly advised them to stick it. In the nicest possible way, of course! ;)
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Just got back from Texas and had the same email waiting for me....however theres a charge for £48.12 pending on my credit card. You may want to check yours.
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I expect you already know this, Dack, but for the benefit of any who don't, sometimes there can be a charge 'pending' on a card for some time. It's not actually charged, just 'reserved' for when the charge comes into effect, i.e. when the item is ready to ship. Many online retailers use this method.
According to 'My Account' at Watford, the order is definitely cancelled. Unfortunately I have used a Virgin card for all my purchases for this PC build, and they do not have an online service as yet, so I will have to wait for my statement to see if there is anything on there which shouldn't be. I suppose I could ring them up, but that will be 30 minutes of my life listening to silly music, and about a minute actually talking to someone. I think I'll wait for the statement!
I do however, wonder if this practise of hiking advertised prices, then claiming 'it was a mistake', is actually legal. Surely there is a Contract Of Sale if the seller offers an item at a certain price, and accepts the buyers offer to purchase? If the seller then changes the price, surely that is breach of contract? If it was advertised for 4p, or something obviously unrealistic, that's different, but £40 for a graphics card is not an unrealistic amount, so although I don't actually want the card now, I believe they should have honoured orders. :tony:
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So will that be 'another' PC components retailer struck of your prefered deal list Simon?
Considering CCl last week, at this rate you'll be buying through me shortly ;D
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Well, it does make me annoyed when businesses, particularly online retailers, behave in this way. They seem to have no respect for the customer, I mean, 48 working hours (that's six days!) to generate an approval (an approval??) for me to return an faulty hard drive, like they are doing me a favour by taking it back! And they expected me to wait until they had ackowledged receipt of the returned drive, before they would send a replacement? Like, who's in the right here? I paid my money, they sent me a duff drive. Not their fault, they weren't to know, but in these circumstances, the customer says jump, and the retailer should say "how high?".
As far as CCL goes, I probably would use them again, as had I not been impatient, I wouldn't have received the wrong information. I wouldn't have received any information, but at least it wouldn't have been wrong, and the monitor would have arrived on time. I'm actually compiling another potential shopping list at this moment, so online retailers BEWARE!!! ;D ;D
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Just got back from Texas
Doing a bit of DIY Dack? I prefer B&Q myself ;) ;D ;D :banana:
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You know that £8.50 'vacumm cleaner' case fan I got on Sunday, well I emailed em to say I would be returning it. Fine say they, 20% restocking charge £1.70 in my case.
That's just 5p less than the fan that I really wanted, cost me from CCl and it too was in a hook hanging retail box.
So why dont the local PC components retailer stock em one could ask, but I didn't.....Well that's the last time I use them, bought all sorts of them in the past, HDD's graphics cards, etc......well no more.
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Just got back from Texas
Doing a bit of DIY Dack? I prefer B&Q myself ;) ;D ;D :banana:
From the shape I thought it was more BBQ.
Now Texas - theres a blast from the past....
I was in Dallas for a two day meeting so left here 4am Monday, got to the hotel 11pm Monday - had two days of early morning to early evening meetings - then flew back last night at 10pm and got back home about 3pm today. Just off to do the local pub quiz though get the feeling I won't be doing too well. :yawn: On flight back was stuck behind a guy who sang in his sleep so couldn't get any sleep either (it was all quiet on the aircraft when he suddenly started up with a few unintelligible lines from "Chicago"). All thise were in UK times.
Then spent a good while arguing with people on the phone e.g. NTL who got shirty because I cancelled their direct debit mandate for a service I haven't had since last December - though there was an outstanding balance that they wanted me to send a cheque to them for about £1.30 :brick:
And relax.....now off to pub
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You know that £8.50 'vacumm cleaner' case fan I got on Sunday, well I emailed em to say I would be returning it. Fine say they, 20% restocking charge £1.70 in my case.
That's just 5p less than the fan that I really wanted, cost me from CCl and it too was in a hook hanging retail box.
So why dont the local PC components retailer stock em one could ask, but I didn't.....Well that's the last time I use them, bought all sorts of them in the past, HDD's graphics cards, etc......well no more.
Surely the distance selling regulations do not allow them to charge a restocking fee.
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I went in personally Dack, but I would not have bought it if I knew I would have to do a hatchet job on the case, to quieten the bugger >:( And I explained all that in my email.
They gain £1.70 and lose a customer, I wonder if the email writer attained NVQ status in business management :-X
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Back up the thread someone was looking for a good car racing game.
Well one of the best is Live For Speed, and its by a group of brits too
A short review http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3297 (http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3297)