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Author Topic: The Great Global Warming Swindle  (Read 9233 times)

Offline mistybear

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2007, 12:41 »
Well this last week really has sucked, on so many levels.

Then I sign a petition at my local shopping centre, to stop Japanese whaling in the Antarctic. So what does our government do, sign a security treaty with Japan. Way to go, thats telling them.  :cussing:

I get an email from PETA asking to sign a petition, petitioning the Canadian government to put a stop to the barbaric slaughter of baby seals. Only to be told that it won't make any difference, as it doesn't work. :brickwall:

Now I learn, if it's true, that global warming isn't down to us humans. So spending money buying expensive energy saving bulbs, not using my car unless I have to, and so on, is a complete waste of time and money. :censored:

Now I really wished I had made the long drive to be there for my mother at her sisters funeral. And that certainly wouldn't have been a waste of time. :cry:
Those who can make you believe absurdities,
can make you commit atrocities.

Offline davy51

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2007, 13:46 »
you didnt wast your time misty

hopefully sooner or later everything we do will count for something

we just have to keep trying
Dave

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend

Albert Camus

Offline Clive

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2007, 14:49 »
Very well put Davy.  We should never underestimate our insignificance on this lovely planet of ours.  Its beauty will still be here for four billion years after we become extinct.   :D

Offline sam

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2007, 21:00 »
ok here is a thought... f*** our effect on global warming here... I personally believe that we are having some effect, the graph posted the other day shows huge increases in global co2 levels recently also I think you can see from that graph the volcanic explosion you mention don't have a huge effect on the levels... (just look up when they occured a put them on that graph.. not that that graph is definite research)... any back to my lets f*** the global warming debate - lets just go with pollution and its effect on our health.

Cars = toxins = bad problems with health... hasn't asthma increased hugely over the last 20 years? We get smog in our cities due to cars and power stations. This is bad for our health and does nothing for improving our level of life. How about we just do it so we have cleaner and nicer places to live? Or am I just being crazy here?

oh and I really wish people would learn that a train and two legs can get you across the country on time (admittedly I do live in Birmingham so it is easy, but if only everyone in Birmingham took the same attitude!) - I went to London last weekend, on time, Liverpool this weekend.
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Offline Sandra

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2007, 00:16 »

Cars = toxins = bad problems with health... hasn't asthma increased hugely over the last 20 years? We get smog in our cities due to cars and power stations. This is bad for our health and does nothing for improving our level of life. How about we just do it so we have cleaner and nicer places to live? Or am I just being crazy here?

oh and I really wish people would learn that a train and two legs can get you across the country on time

The exhaust gases coming out of cars in LA are cleaner than the air the engines take in Sam, not sure about how good or bad their power stations are.

Asthma and allergies in children has increased dramatically in the last 20 or 30 years, I dont remember anyone having an inhaler when I was at school although some adults had them.
I believe that this is caused by weakened immune systems more so than increase in pollutants.
We were taken to chicken pox parties and the likes when someones child got it so we could catch it and develop an immunity to that and other diseases.
Houses were clean but not as sterile and antiseptic as we keep them now.
All kids enjoyed playing in the dirt and probably ate worms, good amounts of mud and other nasty things that would horrify todays parents, unlike today when they often arent even allowed to play on grass because of pesticides and fertiliser etc.
All of these things helped to boost our immune systems and enabled us to fight off the things that cause asthma and other allergies these days.

Trains are too expensive and dont go where most people need them, unless you have an London underground type system and even that shuts down too early for a lot of people.
Buses take too long and are expensive per journey.
Both are awkward if you want to deliver something like a newly built pc to someone at the other side of town, or need to get your weekly shopping from the supermarket back home.





Offline sam

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2007, 10:07 »
The exhaust gases coming out of cars in LA are cleaner than the air the engines take in Sam, not sure about how good or bad their power stations are.

not sure how that can work...

Asthma and allergies in children has increased dramatically in the last 20 or 30 years, I dont remember anyone having an inhaler when I was at school although some adults had them.
I believe that this is caused by weakened immune systems more so than increase in pollutants.
We were taken to chicken pox parties and the likes when someones child got it so we could catch it and develop an immunity to that and other diseases.
Houses were clean but not as sterile and antiseptic as we keep them now..

This probably does not help the situation and heck our cities are less smogy than they were a 100 or so ago, but maybe we should be able to remove this full stop.

Trains are too expensive and dont go where most people need them, unless you have an London underground type system and even that shuts down too early for a lot of people.
Buses take too long and are expensive per journey.
Both are awkward if you want to deliver something like a newly built pc to someone at the other side of town, or need to get your weekly shopping from the supermarket back home.


So how about the 1/4 of a million commuters that go threw new st station every morning, tell them that. They can be awkward but they do the job. In Birmingham it is far quicker (apart from after say 8pm) to get to most of the city via public transport. The buses are regular and the trains aren't in the best places for all but are very good for those near them (I live a 20 min walk away to mine which is direct to the Uni). I have learnt through my whole life (my parents dont drive) to get the supermarket shopping locally (10 minute walk)... and walk and carry it! Anyway, it is feasible in any city (I was in Liverpool on Sat and got a bus at 3am!), possibly not in more remote regions, so I can see the need for a car there. I also see the need for deliveries but for most journeys in a city public transport is by far the best option. Also in Birmingham it is far far cheaper (just thinking about car parking costs).




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Offline GillE

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2007, 10:27 »
There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is readily adopted.

(Schopenhauer, Die Kunst Recht zu Behalten)

Offline sam

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2007, 11:14 »
umm some interesting reading there. I am still not convinced that humans have not had a large impact on our climate. I think we have but there are still trends to the Earth's climate for various reasons causing global warming and cooling. I just think that the last century has seen us destabilise this system and we can do something about it. I don't think it is some big consipiracy by scientists to make you buy energy effiecient equipment, heck energy efficiency means cheaper running costs. I don't know one scientist who would ever lie about results to promote himself.
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Offline gmax

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2007, 12:07 »
Sandra wrote

The exhaust gases coming out of cars in LA are cleaner than the air the engines take in Sam, not sure about how good or bad their power stations are.

 :o Sandra could you test your theory for me? , connect some tubing to the exhaust
pipe of your car then put the tubing inside your car, then sit in your car with the
motor running and the windows up for 10 minutes. If you don't reply i will know you
have tried it. ;)

Offline mistybear

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2007, 12:10 »
you didnt wast your time misty

hopefully sooner or later everything we do will count for something

we just have to keep trying

Well it appears that you in the US are headed for a new government, as will we next year. Hopefully some things will improve.

Oh, and Clive, the sooner we become extinct, the sooner this beautiful planet can recover. A friend told me he had heard someone say that "we are nothing more than a parasite on this planet, and a parasite that is out of control".
Must find out who said that?
Those who can make you believe absurdities,
can make you commit atrocities.

Offline mistybear

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2007, 12:24 »
Houses were clean but not as sterile and antiseptic as we keep them now.
All kids enjoyed playing in the dirt and probably ate worms, good amounts of mud and other nasty things that would horrify todays parents, unlike today when they often arent even allowed to play on grass because of pesticides and fertiliser etc.
All of these things helped to boost our immune systems and enabled us to fight off the things that cause asthma and other allergies these days.

Couldn't agree more, the chemicals that we use in our homes these days are dangerous, they kill everything. I very rarely use strong cleaners, actually I won't be anymore, as the last few times I have we both felt quite sick afterwards. And using strong cleaners on the floors can't be all that good for our pets. We need a certain amount of germs or else we will all end up in bubbles.
Hospitals have proved what strong anti-bacterial cleaning can do, produce super bugs. My aunt died from a infection she caught in hospital.
Those who can make you believe absurdities,
can make you commit atrocities.

Offline Clive

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2007, 13:26 »
I don't know one scientist who would ever lie about results to promote himself.

Ah!  The innocence of youth....  ;D

Offline davy51

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2007, 13:51 »
The exhaust gases coming out of cars in LA are cleaner than the air the engines take in Sam, not sure about how good or bad their power stations are.




I can tell you from personal experiance the air in L.A and chicago sometimes is brown and very visible

the gases comming out of the exaust is invisible
Dave

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend

Albert Camus

Offline Sandra

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2007, 18:24 »
@Gmax, Sam and Davy, please read these 2 pages :

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/05/eveningnews/main521001.shtml

Quote
(CBS) It looks like any other smog-producing car engine, but, as CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales reports, researchers in California say this new design could actually improve the nation's air quality.

http://www.chevron.com/news/speeches/2003/10sep2003_woertz.asp

Quote
The University of California at Riverside has studied these so-called "green cars" to assess their tailpipe emissions. And the preliminary results are surprisingly good.

According to the researchers, emissions from these vehicles are so minimal that they often cannot be measured with conventional equipment. In a recent press release, Allan Lloyd, the chairman of the California Air Resources Board, acknowledged the remarkable impact of the cleanest versions of these cars. He said, "We've seen the near impossible with gasoline vehicles: zero evaporative emissions, exceedingly clean exhaust -- cleaner, in some cases, than the outside air. ..."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Think about this: In other words, the air going out the tailpipe of these cars is actually cleaner than what's going into them, which is a pretty interesting twist on cars and air quality. It's almost as if we can drive around in rolling air filters.

Even more impressive is that some of these gasoline-powered cars produce less emissions than the power plants needed to make electricity for battery-powered cars.

Point proven ?

Offline sam

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Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2007, 20:36 »
no not really. I don't believe a word CBS comes out with and the other sounds like propaganda by chevron, who you would expect to champion the technology.

I think the UCalifornia stuff sounds a bit more interesting, but I love the word preliminary results! I have had many preliminary results that prove something to later, devl further, and have it completely different.

I think the key here is the relation to California.. if you put it in a lab with properly clean air (ie. stuff you would get away from the city and industry) then I bet they won't be able to make the same claim.
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